The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Carly and CeCe are back to Shoot the Shit about the money behind publishing—and why getting published doesn’t mean the hard part is over. They dig into why an author’s second advance might be smaller than their first, the complicated relationship between effort and outcome, and why publishing sits at the messy intersection of art, passion, and business. Then, Carly and CeCe unpack new research on library e-lending and what the rise of ebooks could mean for consumer book sales. Plus, their thoughts on fall submission season, writing with AI, and why there is no magical “champagne room” waiting for writers once they make it.
As mentioned on the podcast:
https://theweekendrant.substack.com/p/when-literary-agents-become-public
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/libraries/article/101167-study-says-library-e-book-lending-hurts-industry-sales.html?mc_cid=5b955f044e&mc_eid=92846a4ddc
Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.
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Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com
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Author Elizabeth Urso and her editor Alex Brown of Rising Action Publishing join Bianca Marais to talk about the journey behind Hail Mary, a dark, visceral thriller steeped in family secrets, generational trauma, and Gothic horror. They chat about Elizabeth’s unconventional path to publication, crafting a prologue that immediately grabs—and unsettles—the reader, knowing your genre audience, and why horror is having such a moment in publishing. 
Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.
Find us on our socials:
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing
https://www.threads.net/@biancamarais_author
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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_shit_about_writing/
https://www.instagram.com/biancamarais_author/ https://www.instagram.com/carlywatters/ https://www.instagram.com/cece_lyra_agent/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TSNOTYAW
Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com
Bookshop.org affiliate page: https://bookshop.org/shop/theshitnoonetellsyouaboutwriting
To sign up for our Substack newsletter, head to https://theshitaboutwriting.substack.com

Our Sponsors:
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* Check out The Comprehensive Copywriting Academy and use my code thecca.co/tspodcast for a great deal: https://thecca.co
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In part one this August bonus episode, Bianca connects with bestselling author Ann Garvin to unpack the craft behind her suspense novel, Tell to Friends. They dive into building tension from page one, planting curiosity seeds that keep readers turning pages, writing unforgettable dual POVs, and making every scene work harder. Ann also shares why she shelved this novel for nearly a decade before the publishing world was finally ready for its unique blend of suspense, humor, and heart.
Stay tuned! Jennifer Michelle Herrera returns to the podcast to talk about her new novel, Siren Says, and her leap from thriller to fantasy. She shares how grief shaped the book’s themes of magic, wonder, and resilience, and how extensive research into botany and Welsh folklore helped bring its world to life. Jennifer also gets into the craft behind the novel—from finding the right opening and using outside readers to writing immersive scenes, sharp dialogue, and simmering sexual tension. Those of you interested in attending the All About Fantasy Virtual Retreat will want to get a sneak peek as Jennifer is one of the featured speakers!
In the third interview of our August bonus episode, Bianca sits down with bestselling author Candice Carty-Williams to explore the return of Queenie, writing beautifully flawed protagonists, and why imperfect characters resonate so deeply with readers. They discuss crafting authentic character arcs, balancing humour with emotional depth, building unforgettable friendships on the page, and creating scenes that reveal character while moving the story forward. Plus, Candice shares how she landed her agent, why planning can only take a story so far, and how letting characters surprise you often leads to the best fiction.
Last but not least, award-winning author and creative writing professor Laurie Petrou joins Bianca to discuss her latest novel, The Rayburn Affair, and the freedom—and strategy—behind writing across genres. She shares why contests can be game-changing for unpublished writers and why timing can play such a huge role in an author’s career. Laurie also chats about the importance of craft, including building a slow burn, cranking up tension and stakes during revision, choosing the right POV, and why your early drafts don’t need to get everything right.
Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.
Find us on our socials:
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing
https://www.threads.net/@biancamarais_author
https://www.threads.net/@carlywatters https://www.threads.net/@cece_lyra_agent
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_shit_about_writing/
https://www.instagram.com/biancamarais_author/ https://www.instagram.com/carlywatters/ https://www.instagram.com/cece_lyra_agent/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TSNOTYAW
Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com
Bookshop.org affiliate page: https://bookshop.org/shop/theshitnoonetellsyouaboutwriting
To sign up for our Substack newsletter, head to https://theshitaboutwriting.substack.com

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/tsnotyaw for a great deal: https://www.quince.com
* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code rosettastone.com/today for a great deal: https://www.rosettastone.com
* Check out The Comprehensive Copywriting Academy and use my code thecca.co/tspodcast for a great deal: https://thecca.co
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On this week's Books with Hooks, Carly, CeCe, and Bianca discuss two compelling submissions: a queer reality TV romance and a dark psychological thriller. They break down what makes a standout query letter, the importance of differentiating your comps, why your opening pages need the right disruption, and how character dynamics, curiosity, and specificity can make or break a manuscript request. Plus, an exciting announcement about a new Books with Hooks format featuring acquiring editors.
Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.
Find us on our socials:
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing
https://www.threads.net/@biancamarais_author
https://www.threads.net/@carlywatters https://www.threads.net/@cece_lyra_agent
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_shit_about_writing/
https://www.instagram.com/biancamarais_author/ https://www.instagram.com/carlywatters/ https://www.instagram.com/cece_lyra_agent/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TSNOTYAW
Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com
Bookshop.org affiliate page: https://bookshop.org/shop/theshitnoonetellsyouaboutwriting
To sign up for our Substack newsletter, head to https://theshitaboutwriting.substack.com

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/tsnotyaw for a great deal: https://www.quince.com
* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code rosettastone.com/today for a great deal: https://www.rosettastone.com
* Check out The Comprehensive Copywriting Academy and use my code thecca.co/tspodcast for a great deal: https://thecca.co
* Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Carly and CeCe are back for another Shooting the Shit, talking about that gut-level feeling that makes an agent know they’ve found something special—and why a great premise still has to deliver all the way through. The literary agents also tackle the latest publishing scams targeting writers, AI watermarking and transparency, and the growing tension around publishers using AI in parts of the business. Plus, they dig into the “put-down, pick-up test”.
As mentioned on the podcast (please copy and paste the URL into your browser):
https://janefriedman.com/after-editing-two-ai-assisted-manuscripts-i-rewrote-my-client-agreement/
https://andibartz.substack.com/p/publishing-is-under-a-full-fledged?r=h5j0&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer
https://dearheadofmine.substack.com/p/submissions-redux-red-yellow-and?r=h5j0&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer
Note: CeCe Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you’d like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. Carly Watters is a literary agent at P.S. Literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host ​and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of P.S. Literary Agency.
Find us on our socials:
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@the_shit_about_writing
https://www.threads.net/@biancamarais_author
https://www.threads.net/@carlywatters https://www.threads.net/@cece_lyra_agent
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the_shit_about_writing/
https://www.instagram.com/biancamarais_author/ https://www.instagram.com/carlywatters/ https://www.instagram.com/cece_lyra_agent/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TSNOTYAW
Websites: www.theshitaboutwriting.com, www.biancamarais.com, www.carlywatters.com and www.cecilialyra.com
Bookshop.org affiliate page: https://bookshop.org/shop/theshitnoonetellsyouaboutwriting
To sign up for our Substack newsletter, head to https://theshitaboutwriting.substack.com

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/tsnotyaw for a great deal: https://www.quince.com
* Check out Rosetta Stone and use my code rosettastone.com/today for a great deal: https://www.rosettastone.com
* Check out The Comprehensive Copywriting Academy and use my code thecca.co/tspodcast for a great deal: https://thecca.co
* Check out Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands