Talkhouse Podcast

On this week’s episode, we’ve got a pair of absolute legends and friends who’ve both been on the show before, but never together. It’s Ben Gibbard and Bob Mould. I’m not sure if either of these guys needs an introduction at this point, but here goes.

Ben Gibbard is the singer, guitarist, and primary songwriter for the band Death Cab For Cutie, with whom he’s been making thoughtful, gorgeous, heartfelt indie-rock for nearly 30 years now. Death Cab made its way out of the underground and into the mainstream with 2003’s epic Transatlanticism, and 2003 was also the year that birthed Gibbard’s unexpectedly massive side project The Postal Service. But while those two records might get a lot of the glory, Death Cab has a deep, rich catalog that continues to grow and thrive to this day. The band’s latest album, I Built You a Tower, came out earlier this year, and it sits comfortably with their best. As you’ll hear in this chat, he’s not ashamed to play the hits while still committing himself to writing great new songs as well. Check out “Riptides” from I Built You a Tower right here.

The other half of today’s conversation, Bob Mould, has clearly had an influence on Gibbard—among literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of other musicians and songwriters over the years. Mould came crashing out of the gate with his band Hüsker Dü in the late 1970s, pioneering the sort of furious yet melodic punk that would define its era and whose sound reverberates to this day. After Hüsker Dü split in the late ‘80s, Mould embarked on a more contemplative solo period—pioneering the punk-goes-acoustic thing—before, in 1992, forming a trio called Sugar with David Barbe and Malcolm Travis. Sugar was the biggest commercial success of Mould’s career, and for good reason: The band’s two albums distilled his greatest strengths. Sugar didn’t last long, but reformed just last year and have been playing triumphant gigs ever since. You can catch them on tour this year, including at Chicago’s Riot Fest. I have barely scratched the surface of Mould’s life and career, so forgive me for that.

In this great conversation, these two chat about revisiting old albums and the question of “fan service,” about how they discover new music as they get older, and about how they prepare their bodies and brains for being on the road. It’s a fun chat, and I hope you enjoy it.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast and thanks to Ben Gibbard and Bob Mould for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

0:00 Intro

02:37 Start of conversation

02:53 On touring and adjusting to life at home again

06:20 On coming home to family after touring

07:10 On Death Cab’s current tour, and bus tours vs. plane tours

09:01 On Bob’s longevity as a performer, and his other career paths

11:20 On staying in shape to tour, and feeling grateful

13:19 On Bob’s energetic performances and physicality

14:23 On doing “rock moves” onstage, and injuries

17:32 On the pros and cons of discovering music through streaming, file-sharing, or physical media

22:16 On living under “an avalanche of music” and why some music does or doesn’t connect

24:01 Why less new music connects with Ben and Bob as they get older

26:32 On how musical identities, genres, and rules have changed

29:12 On finding time to listen to new music, finding new influences from different genres, and “taking inspiration from myself”

33:52 On fitting influences, inspirations, and elements together into a new song and reinterpretation

36:22 On the cons of songwriting publishing disputes and the value of intellectual property

38:08 On David Eggers, protecting art from AI, and the “alchemy and magic” of creating

39:42 On feeling satisfied by making music for yourself, and handing off demos

41:48 On why they’re driven to write songs, and “selfish” reasons to create

44:07 On reflecting on their past work, the importance of “fan service” concerts, and the cultural impact of Transatlanticism

47:57 On connecting with your past self through “album play” shows

50:11 On being the “vessel” for work that deeply connects with people over time

51:43 On Hüsker Dü, solo work, and record label experiences

54:49 On Ben’s birthday, and upcoming shows

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On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve got a pair of fantastic music makers who also happen to be… women in music. That’s their joke, not mine—you’ll hear. It’s Johanna Samuels and Madison Cunningham.

Though she’s from New York, Johanna Samuels’ music has always had West Coast vibes—it makes perfect sense that she now calls Los Angeles home. Her latest album, Sorry, Kid, just came out, and it’s got an interesting backstory: The songs were written years ago but never finished, and there were false starts making them work this time around. But she found a great collaborator in Jonathan Rado—you’ll hear her refer to “Rado” a bunch in this chat—and finally broke through to a stunning set of mellow, downcast songs. You’ll hear the influence of Aimee Mann, Tom Petty, Elliott Smith—if those are your thing, give it a close listen.

The other half of today’s conversation, Madison Cunningham, plays a little bit on Samuels’ record. The two are old friends, and you may have heard Cunningham in a variety of disparate places over the years: She played with Andrew Bird, and the two covered the lone Buckingham-Nicks album together. She’s toured with big names, including Harry Styles. Her 2022 album, Revealer, won the Grammy for Best Folk Album. Cunningham’s third album, Ace, was released late last year, and it’s a winning left turn—less guitar, more piano, a little weirder than ever before. Check out the Samuels’ track “Rare,” which features some playing and singing from Cunningham.

This episode was recorded with our guests in the same room, and you can hear the friendly energy these two have. They joke around about being “women in music” as well as the long road to Samuels’ album, Fiona Apple, Tom Petty, and much, much more. I hope you enjoy listening as much as they did recording.

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Johanna Samuels and Madison Cunningham for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the other great shows in our network. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

0:00 Intro

2:18 Start of convo

2:20 On “women having a moment” in music, and Pitchfork’s mean reviews

3:51 On their newest albums, seeing how art comes out of each others’ lives, and artistic phases

7:01 On releasing songs after the inspiring emotion has passed, mental health, and using songs to process emotions

09:22 On the joy of creation, tarot cards, and the addictive qualities of the creative process

12:17 On the recording process, and finding the sound and lyrics

13:46 On Tom Petty, finding inspiration from great songs, simple lyrics, and cover songs

17:05 On learning to write songs by dissecting other songs, inspiring each other, and deceptively simple pop songs

20:45 On the timeline of making an album, the “Sha Sha Redemption,” and the importance of fun

25:06 On humor and self-awareness in sad songs

28:09 On their “women are having a moment” joke, dealing with anger, and not wanting to be known for one emotion

29:43 On how male songwriters approach expressing emotions differently, and if being hot makes for shallower art

33:58 On being grounded, loving life, discomfort, and feeling free to make new art

37:24 On other artists’ paths and growth, and being willing to try new things

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠, and visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more. Don't miss the latest from your favorite artists: subscribe to the Talkhouse newsletter to receive weekly highlights in your inbox.

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On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve got two guys who might seem miles apart musically, but who are fans of each other’s work nonetheless. It’s Sondre Lerche and William Basinski.

Lerche is the Norwegian pop master who’s released a ton of amazing records over the past couple of decades. He’s flirted with jazzy sounds and more straightforward chamber pop, and he’s also spent time doing soundtrack work. His career took an interesting turn recently with a starring role in the stage musical Moulin Rouge!, which kept him away from his own music-making for a while. But he returns now with Acrobats, a gorgeously rendered album on which he tries to reconcile falling in love with life in what feels like a cruel world. (Don’t worry, you can still sing along.) Check out the song “Little Kids” from Acrobats right here.

You know what you probably won’t be singing along to? William Basinski’s breakthrough ambient masterpiece The Disintegration Loops. If you’re not familiar, The Disintegration Loops came about when Basinski began recording the sound of some of his older works, which were on magnetic tape, decaying. Looped over the course of about five hours, the sounds are mesmerizing and occasionally scary. They were finished on September 11, 2001, and became inextricably linked with the terror attacks of that day. They’ve since been reissued several times, and now the loops are even being performed live by symphony orchestras, a topic that’s touched on here. There’s a lot more to Basinski’s career than I can touch on in one paragraph, but check out The Disintegration Loops if you never have—it’s an experience.

So why are these two guys chatting, one a pop maker and the other making floating soundscapes? Well it turns out that Lerche is a fan of Basinski's, and he even referenced The Disintegration Loops in a 2022 song called “Avatars of Love.” The two have since met and become friends, as you’ll hear in this chat. They talk about Lerche’s time in the musical, about Basinski’s music being performed by actual humans, and of course about how the world is a fucked-up place. It is! Enjoy.

0:00 - Intro

02:39 - Start of conversation

02:53 - On visiting a NY film & music art exhibition at the Hudson Yards

04:04 - On William’s unreleased music archives, and the Williamsburg music scene

07:01 - On Sondre’s lead role in the Moulin Rouge musical, his new album, and how theater compares to creating music

11:04 - On Sondre’s tour schedule, performing his new record live, staying healthy, and connecting with fans

15:02 - On William’s shows in churches, and his new projects

18:31 - On finding new things through the Instagram algorithm, past life regressions, and how that inspired William

20:03 - On releasing Sondre’s new album, Acrobats, its themes, and embracing connection and being present

22:23 - On Sondre referencing William’s work in a new song, “Avatars of Love,” and other artists who have references William

24:55 - On Sondre’s process while writing “Avatars of Love”

27:33 - On The Disintegration Loops’ cultural impact

30:29 - On the movie “Ed Wood,” and thinking about how their work will be remembered artistically

32:19 - On feeling excited by their own work, and how The Disintegration Loop changed William’s career, and the most important performances of his career

34:54 - On the process of performing the loops live

36:28 - On how Sondre runs marathons to William’s work

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Sondre Lerche and William Basinski for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the great stuff over at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme was composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠.
Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more.
Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.

On this week’s Talkhouse Podcast, we’ve got a pair of powerful songwriters—one you surely know, one you may not yet—who recently toured together, and who both have great new albums out. It’s Melissa Etheridge and Maggie Rose.

I’ll try and fail to do justice to Melissa Etheridge’s incredible life and career in one short paragraph: She’s sold millions of records, written and performed massive hit songs, won Grammys and an Oscar, beat cancer, written books, done a one-woman show about her life, been a loud and strong advocate for gay rights since well before that was a mainstream thing to do, and now she’s started a foundation to investigate alternate therapies for drug addiction after losing a son to opioids in 2020. She also managed to write and release her seventeenth studio album over the past couple of years: Rise was co-produced with Shooter Jennings and it’s a bit more rock-leaning than usual. Etheridge is doing a big co-headline tour with Wynonna Judd, and the other half of today’s conversation, Maggie Rose, is opening those shows—and as you’ll hear in this chat, having a ball.

Though she started her career in Nashville, Rose has always pushed at the boundaries of what might be called country music, and her last few albums don’t fit the tag at all. Her brand new album, Half Moon, is out this week, and it’s a big, bright pop record—smart and sophisticated and thoughtful and fun. She’s been through the industry wringer and come out the other side with a stronger sense of self than ever. Half Moon and its accompanying EP Cocoon are influenced by motherhood, which you’ll hear about it in this lively chat. Check out “Red Shoes” from Half Moon right here.

In this sweet, mutually admiring conversation, Etheridge and Rose talk about the importance of following your own path, about being mothers in a crazy business, and about the Etheridge Foundation, among other things. You’ll also hear them talk about joining each other on stage on tour—you can catch them both on the road the rest of this summer, too. Enjoy.

0:00 Introduction

02:22 Start of conversation

02:32 On “The Four Agreements” and the importance of expression

04:24 On finding connection with yourself as an artist, and on touring together

06:56 On “Poison in My Well, Maggie’s latest releases, and Melissa’s influences on her music

12:47 On how Maggie writes with her husband, and the stories behind “The Other Woman” and “Davina”

15:50 On Melissa’s foundation researching and developing alternative treatments for addiction

19:10 On supporting each other, raising kids while touring, and teaching kids life lessons

23:13 On showing kids that doing what you love matters, and Melissa’s creative journey after her son’s passing

26:22 On recording Melissa’s album “Rise,” and engaging with fans in a new way during the pandemic

29:22 On Maggie’s new album “Half Moon,” why Melissa loves her as an artist, and working outside of genre confines

32:26 On being a live performer, feeling “undiscovered” by the wider music industry, and finding success on your own timeline

35:54 On longevity versus “flash in the pan” success, and learning from Bruce Springsteen about what matters as a musician

38:27 On the rest of their tour, and on Melissa’s 12-string guitar

Thanks for listening to the Talkhouse Podcast, and thanks to Melissa Etheridge and Maggie Rose for chatting. If you liked what you heard, please follow Talkhouse on your favorite podcasting platform, and check out all the great stuff at Talkhouse.com. This episode was produced by Myron Kaplan, and the Talkhouse theme is composed and performed by the Range. See you next time!

Find more illuminating podcasts on the ⁠⁠⁠Talkhouse Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠. Visit ⁠⁠⁠talkhouse.com⁠⁠⁠ to read essays, reviews, and more. Follow @talkhouse on ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Twitter (X)⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Threads⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠.

On the latest episode of Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That, Nick Dawson sits down with writer-director and actor Avalon Fast, a queer auteur whose excellent second feature, the lulling, fairytale-like Camp, hit theaters earlier this summer. In a fun and often surprising conversation, Fast opened up about ego death, musical imposter syndrome, exploring and mapping the dream world version of their childhood home of Vancouver Island, growing up in the shadow of an impending fatal mega-earthquake tsunami, coolness, drinking to die, and much more.

Nobody’s Ever Asked Me That now has a Substack, so head there to check out all of our past episodes, plus subscribe to get access to exclusive audio and video content!