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The Cinematologists Podcast

Dario Llinares & Prof. Neil Fox
The Cinematologists Podcast
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  • London Film Festival 2025
    It felt apt that Neil and I were both in London for this year’s edition of the festival. Over the years of The Cinematologists, we’ve covered a range of international events, always striving to capture not just our critical responses to the films, but something of the atmosphere, the resonance of the experience itself.Living in London, I usually don’t feel that full, immersive festival bubble. There’s always the pull of everyday life at the edges. By contrast, attending an international festival abroad brings with it a heightened sense of dislocation—a kind of lived difference that reanimates the senses. That estrangement, combined with the charged intensity of being inside a self-contained epicentre of cinematic energy, somehow deepens both the viewing experience and one’s critical focus.With Neil in town for what amounted to an extended long weekend, I resolved to pack as much into five intense days of screenings, conversations, and cinematic overload. Normally, I prefer to experience films alone, especially at festivals. The solitude seems to both sharpen my concentration in the watching itself. But after a decade of co-hosting The Cinematologists, Neil and I have developed an unspoken rhythm - an ease in conversation and, just as importantly, sit together in that post-screening quiet, letting the film settle before the dialogue begins.We recorded the episode after our final screening together—François Ozon’s adaptation of Albert Camus’ L’Étranger. It proved an apt conclusion: gorgeously shot, restrained yet expressive, and, to my mind, remarkably faithful to the source material. Neil and I found ourselves immediately drawn into questions of form and aesthetics—recurring preoccupations on the podcast in recent years. How, and why, do filmmakers adopt particular visual modes to explore aspects of the human condition? And, more provocatively, is there an ethical contradiction in rendering violence, trauma, crisis, or poverty with beauty?Across this year’s programme, that tension between sensuous visuality and political critique felt ever-present—a paradox that became the connective tissue of our conversations throughout the episode. Many of the films, often formally inventive and emotionally arresting, provoked questions about how cinema confronts and represents the cruel absurdities of contemporary experience, something I’ve been preoccupied with throughout this cinematic year.Ozon’s film, of course, approaches this quite literally, but for me, so many of the works we saw continued a broader trend: filmmakers striving to make sense of senselessness through audio-visual forms that both frame the social and implicate the viewer. Themes of displacement, memory, alienation, and the ethics of representation ran through much of our discussion, as did a shared sense that contemporary filmmakers are consciously reconfiguring documentary, fiction, and hybrid modes to articulate a pervasive cultural unease.We hope you enjoy the conversation, and as usual, we welcome any comments on the films or what we say about them.As always, thanks for coming back or clicking for the first time on Contrawise. If you’re here for the first time, I’m an errant academic, writing and speaking about cinema, media, and art with a philosophical approach.Films discussed on the episodeThe Stranger (dir. Francois Ozon)Ozon’s adaptation of Camus’ existential classic centres on Meursault, a detached and indifferent Frenchman in colonial Algeria who, weeks after his mother’s funeral, impulsively kills an unnamed Arab man on a sun-drenched beach. The subsequent trial becomes an inquiry not only into the murder but into the absurdist senselessness.Starring the excellent Benjamin Voisin, embodying the character’s apathy, alienation, and refusal to conform to moral expectations. Shot with Ozon’s characteristically meticulous visual control, the film is gorgeously rendered—its romantic luminosity almost at odds with the bleakness of the material. In our discussion, we consider whether this sumptuous aesthetic intensifies or undermines the sense of existential ennui that lies at the heart of Camus’ seminal text.Kontinental ‘25 (dir. Radu Jude)Perhaps the most compelling film of the festival for both of us, Kontinental 25 cements Jude’s position as one of the most innovative criticially astute filmmakers working today. Shot on an iPhone 15 in just nine days, we delve into its structure: long, single-take dialogues that blur the boundaries between satire, social critique, and observational realism. Jude’s commitment to implicating the viewer in contemporary dilemmas - homelessness, inequality, liberal guilt - is both brutal and hilarious. A masterclass in how form and ideology intertwine.The Mastermind (dir. Kelly Reichardt)Neil’s solo review of Reichardt’s latest, featuring Josh O’Connor. We’ve always loved Reichardt on the podcast; an early live event focused on Old Joy (2006), and how her genre work and character studies are steeped in rich, observational minimalism. Neil explores how the film takes the heist genre and infuses it with her ongoing cinematic interests in economic precarity, disconnection, and quiet desperation.It continues a fascination with the work of O’Connor for Neil too, following him finally ‘getting’ the actor in his favourite 2024 release, Alice Rohrwacher’s sublime La Chimera. With The Mastermind, Neil particularly liked how Reichardt plays with genre twists, from classic heist mode to something more reflective in terms of a character’s odyssey of reckoning on the road. Definitely a favourite from the fest, and the year as a whole.It Was Just an Accident (dir. Jafar Panahi)Jafar Panahi’s It Was Just an Accident, winner of this year’s Palme d’Or, is a deceptively simple film that unfolds into the profound. Unlike his more overtly meta-cinematic works, this is a relatively linear narrative, yet it bears all of the Iranian auteur’s hallmarks: moral tension, black humour, and an acute sense of the everyday as political theatre.The story begins with a family driving through the Iranian countryside at night. A momentary lapse—a dog struck on a quiet road—sets in motion a chain of events that spiral into something far darker. When their car breaks down, they arrive at a remote garage run by a man named Vahid. Hearing the father’s prosthetic leg knock against the floorboards, Vahid becomes convinced he has found one of his former torturers from a prison camp where he was held blindfolded decades earlier. What follows is an unsettling, almost allegorical narrative of suspicion, revenge, and moral reckoning. Panahi transforms this familiar premise into a complex study of guilt, trauma, and retribution.Rose of Nevada (dir. Mark Jenkin)Mark Jenkin’s third feature - produced in association with Neil’s Sound/Image Cinema Lab - continues his commitment to the tactile, handmade qualities of cinema while venturing into his most expansive and narratively ambitious work to date. On the surface, Rose of Nevada employs a familiar conceit: two young fishermen, played by Callum Turner and George MacKay, are sent aboard a trawler that mysteriously reappears after having been lost at sea for thirty years. Once they set sail, time begins to fold in on itself, and what follows is a haunting, non-sci-fi exploration of memory, loss, and the persistence of the past.Rose of Nevada is, quite simply, ravishing to look at. The colours - deep, saturated, defiantly un-digital - seem to breathe with the Cornish landscape and seascape. Abstract intercuts of bark, light, water, and surface give the film a kind of expressionist pulse; images shimmer between the material and the metaphysical.We discuss Jenkin’s characteristic approach to performance - “Bressonian deadpan” - where actors deliver lines with studied restraint, becoming cyphers for ideas and emotional undercurrents rather than expressive psychological portraits. The film feels like a confluence of Jenkin’s earlier work - Bait’s class-inflected regional politics and Enys Men’s metaphysical strangeness - now realised at a larger scale and with bolder artistic confidence. It recalls the material realism of Leviathan and even the mythic textures of Jaws, though entirely on Jenkin’s own terms.And, I share my “I went swimming with George MacKay” anecdote.My interview with Mark from earlier in 2025 when he had just finished editing the film.Also mentioned in the episodeSinging Wings (dir. Hemen Khaledi)Dry Leaf (dir. Alexandre Koberidze)The Son and The Sea (dir. Stroma Cairns)After the Hunt (dir. Luca Guadagnino)Becoming Human (dir. Polen Ly)Dreams (dir. Michel Frano)With Hassan in Gaza (dir. Kamal Aljafari)Palestine 36 (dir. Annemarie Jacir)You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show.———Music Credits:‘Theme from The Cinematologists’Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe
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  • PTA's latest, Redford reflections and some big podcast news
    We are back! Season 22 kicks off with a stellar, loose, multi-layered, melancholic, heated and nervy, shambling odyssey of an episode, which befits the central discussion, centred as it is around the release of Paul Thomas Anderson’s One Battle After Another.The timing of the release of the new PTA is fortuitous as he is a filmmaker that we have circled around over the years, given my love for the filmmaker, as well as his place in contemporary American cinema. It’s also good timing as the film has found itself lodged at the centre of film discourse in so many ways since its release last Friday (September 26th).Before we get into it, looking in depth at the film and the conversations and reactions it has provoked, the episode starts with a bang, of an announcement about the future of the podcast (no spoilers here), followed by a short ode to one of the great screen actors of all-time, Robert Redford, and how we have marked his passing in terms of their viewing choices. Their chat covers what made Redford such a unique, enigmatic Hollywood star, his on and off-screen legacies, including a lovely anecdote from Dario about seeing his final film, David Lowery’s The Old Man & The Gun (2018) at the London Film Festival.The second-half of the episode is given over to One Battle After Another. We unpack my love of PTA and how that informs his viewing of his films when they are released and the film’s approach to form and how it relates to the original text that inspired it, Thomas Pynchon’s Vineland, which feels like a stronger source text than some reporting suggests. We go on to explore how Pynchon and PTA share a sense of juxtaposing zaniness with bone deep sadness at the way America is and has been, as well as what makes the cinematic spectacle and theatrical experience of the film so magnetic and rewarding.Then there’s the conversation around the film, that flows from the above but is contextual. They talk about the ‘takes’ and responses to the film, where critique feels valid and where it feels misguided. Much of this centres around the ideas of what a Hollywood film can and should do in terms of being revolutionary, and indeed what any film created in a capitalist structure can do, but also we unpack how the film might be read as a comment on revolutionary Cinema, what happens to revolutions over time, the ongoing revolution of resistance to white American control, and the impact of white revolutionaries in fights that they have the privilege of being able to walk away from to a large degree. And also, why this film, despite its incredible dynamism and grotesque operatic performances, is so damn sad.And if that whets your appetite for this season, we have you covered, this is just the beginning. From here, it’s one podcast after another. Sorry. Couldn’t resist. (NF) This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe
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  • The Cinematologists Present: Students on Screen
    This special episode of The Cinematologists is a contribution to the Students on Screen  project convened by Dr Kay Calver and Dr Bethan Michael-Fox, to coincide with a special issue of Open Screens they have edited, which explores screen representations of students across a plethora of Global screen media forms.On behalf of The Cinematologists, Neil contributed a paper - drawing from his decade-old doctoral work - on representations of film students in anglophone cinema, and put together this episode, which is both a dissemination of and critical artefact of, the special issue.For this episode Neil talks to Kay and Beth about the Students on Screen project, as conveners and issue editors, as well as three contributors to the special collection. The contributors are Dr Sharon Coleclough, Dr Devaleena Kundu and Dr Oli Belas. The critical focus of all the conversations includes critical regard for the spaces where representations of students in fiction and non-fiction screen spaces can improve, address, or further address gaps in lived experience.Elsewhere in the episode, Neil and Dario discuss representations of students on screen, Neil’s paper, and in an extended analysis, a film that Neil doesn’t cover in his piece, but is worthy of discussion, 2014’s The Rewrite, directed by Marc Lawrence and starring Hugh Grant and Marisa Tomei.For more information on the Students on Screen project, click the link above, and for more information, on the journal Open Screens, click here.———Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists———You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show.———Music Credits:‘Theme from The Cinematologists’Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe
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  • Terrence Malick (w/John Bleasdale)
    For the final [main] episode of this season, the 21st, we are delighted to welcome writer and podcaster John Bleasdale (Writers on Film) to the show, to discuss his excellent book on Terrence Malick, The Magic Hours: The Films and Hidden Life of Terrence Malick.Neil talks to John about his approach to research and interview/archive given the glaring lack of a central subject's voice, Malick and John's own relationship to the big themes around philosophy and faith, the power of understanding Malick's later period work anew through the lens of [auto]biography, and the ways that Malick's early work truly shifted American film language.Elsewhere Neil and Dario discuss Malick's work in thematic/aesthetic periods, how Malick used formal experimentation to explore biographical trauma and regret in his most divisive work, approaching famous people, and how books and podcasts provide valuable routes into engagement with film and cinema, to understanding wider contexts, particularly for challenging and envelope-pushing work.———Visit our Patreon at www.patreon.com/cinematologists———You can listen to The Cinematologists for free, wherever you listen to podcasts: click here to follow.We really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show.———Music Credits:‘Theme from The Cinematologists’Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing.   This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe
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  • Pavements (& Videoheaven w/Alex Ross Perry)
    Welcome friends.Thanks for stopping by and welcome to the many new free subscribers that have signed up in the last few weeks. A very special thanks to Helen, Bluetrue, R.J. MacReady, & sukhveer kang for becoming paid subscribers. I really do appreciate your support. Postcards should be coming your way anytime (if you haven’t yet DM’d me your address, please do that if you want a little physical media token of my gratitude).Subscribe nowI’m working on a couple of longer written pieces, to be published next week. These are articles that have been on my mind for a little while and I wanted to take a bit of extra time in crafting the argument and furnishing the research.They both speak quite zeitgiesty. One reflects a prevalent cinematic trend, in which form and theme, as I see it, emerges from the “absurdities” of the contemporary socio-political experience. In the other piece, I’m working on putting one element of the emergence of FilmStack in a larger historical context.Yes, I’m being a little enigmatic, but that’s my prerogative. Hopefully, some of you might be suitably intrigued. In the meantime, I wanted to share a recent episode of The Cinematologists Podcast featuring my co-host Neil’s [Indistinct Chatter] in-depth conversation with American indie Filmmaker Alex Ross Perry.Hi latest work - Pavements - is a self-reflexive, tonally playful, and structurally audacious film that might loosely be called a “music documentary,” though such a categorisation feels entirely insufficient.Joe Keery & Stephen MalkmusIt is as much a study of fandom and memory as it is a biographical account of the influential '90s indie band Pavement. Through a collage of archival materials, faux-biopic fragments, split-screen juxtapositions, and full-blown musical theatre sequences the film constructs a mythopoetic portrait of a band whose identity was always wrapped in contradictions: sincerity and irony, virtuosity and nonchalance, lo-fi chaos and lyrical precision.What unfolds in our conversation is a deep dive into:The editorial complexity of telling four parallel stories simultaneously: the band’s rise, their reunion, a fictional musical, and a staged film-within-a-film.Perry’s desire to create a film whose form reflects the band’s sensibility — fractured, contradictory, but ultimately cohesive.The challenge of navigating tone when the project itself subverts traditional modes of storytelling, even as it draws from them.The role of humour, performance, and self-awareness in both Pavement’s legacy and the filmmaking process.Why sincerity can only function when set against the backdrop of knowing absurdity.In an era where the “music doc” has become as formulaic as the legacy biopic, Pavements is a fascinating outlier: elegiac essay film, audiovisual slash fiction, unreliable cultural history and hyper-self-conscious indie experiment. It’s a film that doesn’t so much document a band as contribute a mythological re-staging. In their conversation, Neil and Alex dig into some fascinating terrain: the legacies of Gen X fandom and its oscillation between slacker irony and obsessive authenticity; the cultural fatigue that breeds dislocations between cynicism and sincerity; and the strange condition of loving something while also deconstructing it in real time. What emerges is a compelling meditation on aesthetic form as a kind of fandom in itself, a way of expressing reverence not through hagiography but through playful reconstruction. Pavements ultimately asks: What does it mean to remember a band that never fully wanted to be remembered? And how do you make a film that honours ambivalence without resolving it?There’s also discussion of Perry’s other new release, Videoheaven, a formally rigorous, found-footage love letter to the ephemeral space of the video store - tracing its representation in over 180 films from the mid-80s to the present. The conversation explores how both films, in their different registers, offer meditations on media archaeology, nostalgia, and the ways in which personal and collective cultural memory are shaped through images, sound, and spaces.In our post-interview conversation, Neil and I attempt to deconstruct the meta-textual layers at play, beginning with a reflection on the interview process itself: that is, the inherently performative and constructed nature of podcast discourse, especially when it’s in dialogue with a film already so self-consciously aware of its own artifice. From there, we try to unpack the slipperiness of articulating what makes a film like Pavements “good.” That category, “goodness”, often operates at the level of instinct or affect, shaped by personal taste, mood, cultural memory; it resists codification and certainly defies objective criteria. And this is especially true when the film’s formal strategies seem designed to destabilise conventional modes of storytelling and undercut sincerity at every turn. Yet paradoxically, that very tension, between irony and emotional investment, between knowingness and vulnerability, is what makes Pavements work. It mirrors the band’s own history, their aesthetic ethos, and the contradictions they never resolved and never needed to.Pavements is now available to view on MUBI.Videoheaven, which is available to screen direct from Cinema Conservancy.Neil and I first discussed Pavements on our second 2024 London Film Festival episode, the festival where the film had its UK premiere. As always, thanks for coming back or clicking for the first time on Contrawise. If you like what you have read/watched/listened to, I’d really appreciate it if you can restack/share to your networks.A gesture of human curatorial practice is more valuable than any algorithm recommendation.ShareWe really appreciate any reviews you might write (please send us what you have written and we’ll mention it) and sharing on Social Media is the lifeblood of the podcast, so please do that if you enjoy the show. If you’re not already a subscriber, please consider doing so by hitting the button below. Become part of the network of curious, fascinating people!Subscribe nowThere’s always an unease in asking for financial support, especially when one is competing in today’s oversaturated digital marking. So any support is genuinely appreciated and will allow me to continue to build a resource for those interested in cinema, media and the human experience.A subscription is £5 per month (£50 for the year). You get access to the full articles, podcasts, and film resources I produce. I’ll also send you and physical postcard, wherever you may reside:Become a paid SubscriberOr, if you don’t want to subscribe but think to yourself: “yeah, I’d shout that guy a coffee if we ever met IRL”, you can do that here:Buy me a coffeeMusic Credits:‘Theme from The Cinematologists’Written and produced by Gwenno Saunders. Mixed by Rhys Edwards. Drums, bass & guitar by Rhys Edwards. All synths by Gwenno Saunders. Published by Downtown Music Publishing. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit dariollinares.substack.com/subscribe
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Film academics Dr Dario Llinares and Prof. Neil Fox discuss a range of films and dissect film culture from many different perspectives. The podcast also features interviews with filmmakers, scholars, writers and actors who debate all aspects of cinema. dariollinares.substack.com
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