Democracy Paradox

By dismantling certain capacities today, you're making the democratic choices of tomorrow harder.
Javier Pérez Sandoval
In this episode, Javier Pérez Sandoval discusses his Journal of Democracy essay, coauthored with Andrés Mejía Acosta, on why populist leaders often “hollow out” the state. Moving beyond familiar debates about executive aggrandizement and democratic backsliding, Pérez Sandoval argues that democracy depends on the state’s capacity to deliver essential public goods – from health and education to security, justice, and credible elections. Drawing on examples from Mexico and Argentina, he explains how both left- and right-wing populists may weaken institutions through austerity, politicization, and institutional restructuring, often prioritizing short-term political gains over long-term democratic resilience. The conversation explores how state erosion can constrain future democratic choices, undermine public trust, and create a vicious cycle that leaves democracy structurally weakened from within.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
Reducing State Capacity - 3:47
Core Functions of the State - 12:23
Is Reducing State Capacity Antidemocratic? 21:13
Does the Public Want to Hollow Out the State? 33:31
Links
Learn more about Javier Pérez Sandoval.
Read the Journal of Democracy essay “Why Populists Hollow Out Their States.”
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
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The group of people who have an interest in defending liberal democracy might be broader than many academics, and maybe even liberals, would have shown.
Kate Baldwin
This episode features Yale political scientist Kate Baldwin in a conversation about her book Faith in Democracy, which challenges the assumption that religion is inherently hostile to democratic governance. Drawing on research from sub-Saharan Africa, Baldwin explains how Christian churches have often emerged as defenders of liberal democracy – not because of ideological commitments, but because democratic institutions protect church autonomy and social service work from state overreach. The conversation explores when and why churches mobilize against democratic backsliding, how institutional incentives shape political behavior, and what this reveals about the broader coalition of actors invested in sustaining democracy.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 

Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
Why Churches Defend Democracy - 3:20
Role of Education - 14:09
Why Churches Choose Autocracy - 20:09
Leadership - 27:00
Links
Learn more about Kate Baldwin.
Learn more about her book Faith in Democracy: The Logic of Church Advocacy for Liberal Democratic Institutions in Africa.
Check out "Democracy's Devout Defenders" in the Journal of Democracy.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Support the show

You can take a cognitive bias so far down the road that you can live in an objectively very clear dictatorship and sit there and say, 'I live in a democracy.'
Natalie Wenzell Letsa
In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with political scientist Natalie Wenzell Letsa about why some voters genuinely support ruling parties in electoral autocracies. Drawing on her book The Autocratic Voter and fieldwork in Cameroon, Letsa explains how partisan identities form under dictatorship and what these dynamics reveal about democracy, polarization, and political behavior more broadly.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
What is an Electoral Autocracy - 3:20
Voters in an Autocracy - 12:55
Opposition in an Autocracy - 21:04
Parallels to Democracies - 30:31
Links
Learn more about Natalie Wenzell Letsa.
Learn more about her book The Autocratic Voter: Partisanship and Political Socialization Under Dictatorship.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Support the show

The heart of ungoverning is going after expertise - eradicating expertise - and replacing it with the power of the great ruler.
Russ Muirhead
Russell Muirhead is the Robert Clements Professor of Democracy and Politics and the co-director of the Political Economy Project at Dartmouth University. He's also the co-author, with Nancy Rosenblum, of Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos. 
Patrick McQuestion joins to help introduce the episode. Patrick is a  PhD student in his fourth year at the University of Notre Dame studying political science and peace studies, and also the co-host of the Global Stage Podcast. 
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
What is Ungoverning? 9:00
The Fourth Branch - 32:29
Other Examples of Ungoverning 36:28
Ungoverning and Democracy - 46:59
Links:
Learn more about Russell Muirhead
Learn more about his book Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos
Learn more about Patrick McQuestion
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Support the show

Decreasing incumbent capacity and affective polarization are making incumbency salient, but also more of a curse than a blessing.
Luis Schiumerini
In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with Notre Dame political scientist Luis Schiumerini about his new book Incumbency Bias: Why Political Office is a Blessing and a Curse in Latin America. Schiumerini challenges common assumptions about incumbents, demonstrating that holding office can create systematic advantages – or disadvantages – depending on the institutional context. Before the conversation begins, Kellogg Doctoral Student Affiliate Tomás Gianibelli joins Kempf to share his experience working with Schiumerini and to explain why this research reshapes how scholars think about democracy.
 The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 

Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
What is Incumbency Bias - 6:06
Incumbency Disadvantage on the Rise - 23:58
Term Limits - 31:39
Implications for Democracy - 36:52
Links:
Learn more about Luis Schiumerini
Learn more about his book Incumbency Bias: Why Political Office is a Blessing and a Curse in Latin America
Learn more about Tomás Gianibelli
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Support the show