On Investing

This episode focuses on what rising interest rates are really signaling, why stock market strength may be masking weakness beneath the surface, and how investors should think about bond allocations in a higher-for-longer rate environment.
Liz Ann Sonders argues that the relationship between stocks and bonds has fundamentally changed from the "Great Moderation" era. Rather than rising bond yields reflecting stronger growth and supporting stocks, today's environment looks more like an earlier inflation-driven period where higher yields can put pressure on equity valuations. Despite the S&P 500 sitting near record highs, she notes that market leadership remains highly concentrated in a small group of mega-cap technology stocks. Beneath the surface, market breadth has deteriorated significantly, with relatively few stocks making new highs and many experiencing bear market-like drawdowns. Her takeaway for investors is to avoid becoming overly concentrated, maintaining long-term time horizons, and recognize that headline index performance tells only part of the story.
Collin explains that the recent rise in Treasury yields has been relatively orderly and is not primarily being driven by a surge in the term premium or investor fears about Treasury demand. Instead, yields are reflecting a resilient economy, sticky inflation, and expectations for additional Federal Reserve tightening.
Finally, Collin and Liz Ann look ahead to next week’s upcoming macroeconomic indicators and key data releases.
On Investing is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/OnInvesting.
If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.
Important Disclosures
Money market funds are neither insured nor guaranteed by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation or any other government agency. Although the fund seeks to preserve the value of an investment at $1.00 per share, it is possible to lose money by investing in the fund.
This material is intended for general informational and educational purposes only. This should not be considered an individualized recommendation or personalized investment advice. The securities, investment products and investment strategies mentioned are not suitable for everyone. Each investor needs to review an investment strategy for his or her own particular situation before making any investment decisions.
All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market, economic or political conditions. Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.
Diversification, asset allocation, and rebalancing strategies do not ensure a profit and do not protect against losses in declining markets.
Rebalancing may cause investors to incur transaction costs and, when a non-retirement account is rebalanced, taxable events may be created that may affect your tax liability.
Performance may be affected by risks associated with non-diversification, including investments in specific countries or sectors. Additional risks may also include, but are not limited to, investments in foreign securities, especially emerging markets, real estate investment trusts (REITs), fixed income, municipal securities including state specific municipal securities, small capitalization securities and commodities. Each individual investor should consider these risks carefully before investing in a particular security or strategy.
Fixed income securities are subject to increased loss of principal during periods of rising interest rates. Fixed income investments are subject to various other risks including changes in credit quality, market valuations, liquidity, prepayments, early redemption, corporate events, tax ramifications, and other factors.
All names and market data shown are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.
Forecasts contained herein are for illustrative purposes only, may be based upon proprietary research and are developed through analysis of historical public data.
The policy analysis provided by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.
Indexes are unmanaged, do not incur management fees, costs, and expenses and cannot be invested in directly. For more information on indexes, please see Schwab.com/IndexDefinitions
The Schwab Center for Financial Research is a division of Charles Schwab & Co., Inc.
Negative correlation refers to investments that tend to move in opposite directions: when one rises, the other falls.
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Liz Ann Sonders and Collin Martin analyze the Federal Reserve’s latest rate hike. They unpack why the Fed acted now, arguing that inflation remains too persistent despite a resilient economy, strong labor market, and robust consumer spending. They discuss the Fed's updated projections, which suggest inflation may not return to its 2% target until 2028 and imply the possibility of additional rate hikes ahead.
The conversation then turns to market implications. Stocks sold off following the announcement as Treasury yields climbed above 5%, reflecting expectations that monetary policy may remain tighter for longer. Liz Ann highlights that while some inflation pressures are supply-driven, there are also demand-side forces at work, including AI-related capital spending and continued economic strength. Collin and Liz Ann emphasize that higher rates today could ultimately help reduce inflation and bring down long-term borrowing costs, even if the path is bumpy for markets in the near term.
Finally, Collin and Liz Ann look ahead to next week’s upcoming macroeconomic indicators and key data releases.
On Investing is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/OnInvesting.
If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.
Important Disclosures
This material is intended for general informational and educational purposes only. This should not be considered an individualized recommendation or personalized investment advice. The securities, investment products and investment strategies mentioned are not suitable for everyone. Each investor needs to review an investment strategy for his or her own particular situation before making any investment decisions.
All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market, economic or political conditions. Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.
Diversification and asset allocation strategies do not ensure a profit and do not protect against losses in declining markets.
Performance may be affected by risks associated with non-diversification, including investments in specific countries or sectors. Additional risks may also include, but are not limited to, investments in foreign securities, especially emerging markets, real estate investment trusts (REITs), fixed income, municipal securities including state specific municipal securities, small capitalization securities and commodities. Each individual investor should consider these risks carefully before investing in a particular security or strategy.
Fixed income securities are subject to increased loss of principal during periods of rising interest rates. Fixed income investments are subject to various other risks including changes in credit quality, market valuations, liquidity, prepayments, early redemption, corporate events, tax ramifications, and other factors.
All names and market data shown are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.
Forecasts contained herein are for illustrative purposes only, may be based upon proprietary research and are developed through analysis of historical public data.
The policy analysis provided by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.
Indexes are unmanaged, do not incur management fees, costs, and expenses and cannot be invested in directly. For more information on indexes, please see Schwab.com/IndexDefinitions
A hyperscaler is a large-scale cloud service provider that offers vast computing, storage, and networking resources through a distributed infrastructure of interconnected servers and software.
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In this episode, Liz Ann Sonders reflects on four decades on Wall Street, sharing timeless investing lessons that remain relevant in today’s market environment. Drawing on wisdom from legendary investors and classic books, she highlights the importance of humility, adaptability, and emotional discipline.
Liz Ann and Collin then turn to current market developments, including rising Treasury yields, increased Treasury buyback operations, and the growing competition for investor dollars between bonds and equities. Collin explains why bond yields have been attracting more attention and what upcoming policy decisions from the Treasury and Federal Reserve could mean for markets.
Then Liz Ann interviews noted housing market expert Ivy Zelman, executive vice president and co-founder of Zelman & Associates. While she does not see housing signaling an imminent recession, Zelman describes a market that continues to struggle with affordability challenges, elevated mortgage rates, and pronounced regional differences. She explores longer-term demographic trends that could reshape housing demand, including slowing household formation, lower population growth, and the rise of multigenerational living. The conversation concludes with a look at the strongest and weakest housing markets today and a discussion of why demographic shifts may become one of the most important, yet underappreciated, economic stories of the coming decades.
You can read Liz Ann’s article on reflections from her career here: “Songs of Experience: Reminiscences of a Strategist.”
On Investing is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/OnInvesting.
If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.
Important Disclosures
The comments, views, and opinions expressed in the presentation are those of the speakers and do not necessarily represent the views of Charles Schwab.
This material is intended for general informational and educational purposes only. This should not be considered an individualized recommendation or personalized investment advice. The securities, investment products and investment strategies mentioned are not suitable for everyone. Each investor needs to review an investment strategy for his or her own particular situation before making any investment decisions.
All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market, economic or political conditions. Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.
Performance may be affected by risks associated with non-diversification, including investments in specific countries or sectors. Additional risks may also include, but are not limited to, investments in foreign securities, especially emerging markets, real estate investment trusts (REITs), fixed income, municipal securities including state specific municipal securities, small capitalization securities and commodities. Each individual investor should consider these risks carefully before investing in a particular security or strategy.
Fixed income securities are subject to increased loss of principal during periods of rising interest rates. Fixed income investments are subject to various other risks including changes in credit quality, market valuations, liquidity, prepayments, early redemption, corporate events, tax ramifications, and other factors.
All names and market data shown are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.
Forecasts contained herein are for illustrative purposes only, may be based upon proprietary research and are developed through analysis of historical public data.
The policy analysis provided by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.
Indexes are unmanaged, do not incur management fees, costs, and expenses and cannot be invested in directly. For more information on indexes, please see ​Schwab.com/IndexDefinitions
The books A Random Walk Down Wall Street, The Intelligent Investor, The Money Game, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds, and Against the Gods are not affiliated with, sponsored by, or endorsed by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.). Charles Schwab & Co., Inc. (CS&Co.) has not reviewed the books and makes no representations about their content.
Correlation refers to investments that tend to move in opposite directions: when one rises, the other falls.
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Fed Chair Kevin Warsh's Jackson Hole speech struck a more hawkish tone than investors expected, increasing the likelihood of another rate hike as the Fed remains focused on persistent inflation. Collin Martin and Liz Ann Sonders discuss what that means for markets, why the speed and purpose of rate hikes matter more than any specific interest-rate level, and how investors may be entering a new era of higher inflation volatility, shifting stock-bond relationships, and increased market sensitivity to economic data. Finally, they look ahead to the indicators and data that could matter most to investors in the coming week.
On Investing is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/OnInvesting.
If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.
Important Disclosures
This material is intended for general informational and educational purposes only. This should not be considered an individualized recommendation or personalized investment advice. The securities, investment products and investment strategies mentioned are not suitable for everyone. Each investor needs to review an investment strategy for his or her own particular situation before making any investment decisions.
All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market, economic or political conditions. Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.
Diversification and asset allocation strategies do not ensure a profit and do not protect against losses in declining markets.
Performance may be affected by risks associated with non-diversification, including investments in specific countries or sectors. Additional risks may also include, but are not limited to, investments in foreign securities, especially emerging markets, real estate investment trusts (REITs), fixed income, municipal securities including state specific municipal securities, small capitalization securities and commodities. Each individual investor should consider these risks carefully before investing in a particular security or strategy.
Fixed income securities are subject to increased loss of principal during periods of rising interest rates. Fixed income investments are subject to various other risks including changes in credit quality, market valuations, liquidity, prepayments, early redemption, corporate events, tax ramifications, and other factors.
All names and market data shown are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.
Forecasts contained herein are for illustrative purposes only, may be based upon proprietary research and are developed through analysis of historical public data.
The policy analysis provided by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.
Indexes are unmanaged, do not incur management fees, costs, and expenses and cannot be invested in directly. For more information on indexes, please see Schwab.com/IndexDefinitions
A hyperscaler is a large-scale cloud service provider that offers vast computing, storage, and networking resources through a distributed infrastructure of interconnected servers and software.
Negative correlation refers to investments that tend to move in opposite directions: when one rises, the other falls.
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Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

This episode of On Investing looks at a market environment increasingly shaped by persistent inflation, rising long-term Treasury yields, fiscal concerns, and renewed trade tensions. Liz Ann Sonders and Collin Martin begin by discussing the latest inflation data, which continues to show price pressures well above the Federal Reserve's 2% target. While wage growth is not driving inflation, they highlight several other forces keeping inflation elevated, including energy prices, tariffs, and the massive investment required to support the AI boom.

The conversation then turns to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent's efforts to influence long-term interest rates after yields surged. Collin argues that Bessent's actions are understandable given concerns about mortgage rates and borrowing costs, but he views them as a short-term response to a much deeper issue: the nation's growing debt burden and ongoing fiscal deficits. Both hosts suggest that attempts to manage yields address the symptoms rather than the underlying causes. They also explore the potential tension this creates with the Federal Reserve, which may prefer tighter financial conditions to combat inflation.

The episode closes with a look ahead to the Fed's Jackson Hole conference, upcoming labor market reports, purchasing manager surveys, and other economic data that could shape expectations for both growth and Fed policy.

You can read the report Liz Ann mentions here: "Great Moderation Era: Drift(ing) Away."

On Investing is an original podcast from Charles Schwab. For more on the show, visit schwab.com/OnInvesting.

If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating or review on Apple Podcasts.

Important Disclosures

This material is intended for general informational and educational purposes only. This should not be considered an individualized recommendation or personalized investment advice. The securities, investment products and investment strategies mentioned are not suitable for everyone. Each investor needs to review an investment strategy for his or her own particular situation before making any investment decisions.

All expressions of opinion are subject to change without notice in reaction to shifting market, economic or political conditions. Data contained herein from third party providers is obtained from what are considered reliable sources. However, its accuracy, completeness or reliability cannot be guaranteed.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results.

Investing involves risk, including loss of principal.

Diversification and asset allocation strategies do not ensure a profit and do not protect against losses in declining markets.

Performance may be affected by risks associated with non-diversification, including investments in specific countries or sectors. Additional risks may also include, but are not limited to, investments in foreign securities, especially emerging markets, real estate investment trusts (REITs), fixed income, municipal securities including state specific municipal securities, small capitalization securities and commodities. Each individual investor should consider these risks carefully before investing in a particular security or strategy.

Fixed income securities are subject to increased loss of principal during periods of rising interest rates. Fixed income investments are subject to various other risks including changes in credit quality, market valuations, liquidity, prepayments, early redemption, corporate events, tax ramifications, and other factors.

Investing in alternative investments is speculative, not suitable for all clients, and generally intended for experienced and sophisticated investors who are willing and able to bear the high economic risks of the investment. Investors should obtain and carefully read the related prospectus or offering memorandum, which will contain the information needed to help evaluate the potential investment and provide important disclosures regarding risks, fees and expenses.

Commodity-related products carry a high level of risk and are not suitable for all investors. Commodity-related products may be extremely volatile, may be illiquid, and can be significantly affected by underlying commodity prices, world events, import controls, worldwide competition, government regulations, and economic conditions.

All names and market data shown are for illustrative purposes only and are not a recommendation, offer to sell, or a solicitation of an offer to buy any security.

Forecasts contained herein are for illustrative purposes only, may be based upon proprietary research and are developed through analysis of historical public data.

The policy analysis provided by Charles Schwab & Co., Inc., does not constitute and should not be interpreted as an endorsement of any political party.

Indexes are unmanaged, do not incur management fees, costs, and expenses and cannot be invested in directly. For more information on indexes, please see Schwab.com/IndexDefinitions

Negative correlation refers to investments that tend to move in opposite directions: when one rises, the other falls.

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Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.