Real Life Real Crime

On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody starts with an update about the direction of the shows. Saturdays are going back to old-school Real Life Real Crime stories, while True Crime Time For continues during the week. He also reminds listeners that work continues on #WhatHappenedToMadison, #JusticeForHailey, and the other cases RLRC is involved with—and that any breaking developments will be brought to listeners as soon as possible.
Then it is time for a disturbing edition of Family Matters.
Four Children Allegedly Kept in a “Rolling Prison”
Florida authorities say four children were kept for years inside the cab of a semi-truck and subjected to horrific abuse by the adults who were supposed to protect them.
Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier announced charges against Keysha Monique Epps, 51, and Tamra Marshon Stewart, 37.
Authorities allege the two women kept two boys and two girls confined in the cab of a tractor-trailer for approximately six years while traveling freight routes between Florida and Georgia. Uthmeier described the truck as a “rolling prison.”
Investigators allege the children were deprived of schooling, adequate medical care, hygiene and basic opportunities to move freely outside the truck. According to the case outlined by Woody, some of the children suffered untreated injuries, including burns that left permanent scarring.
The allegations become even more disturbing.
Prosecutors say the children were also subjected to sexual abuse, with Stewart accused of abusing the girls and physically assaulting the boys when they witnessed or challenged what was happening. One child was reportedly found with an untreated sexually transmitted infection.
Uthmeier has publicly said Florida intends to pursue the harshest punishment available.
Woody makes his own feelings about cases involving sexual abuse of children unmistakably clear.
His focus, though, remains on the four children—who now face the long process of recovering physically and emotionally after years of alleged abuse.
On This Day: The Mathis Family Murders
Woody then turns to a still-unsolved South Dakota case dating back exactly 45 years.
On September 8, 1981, LaDonna Mathis, 30, and two of her sons, Brian Mathis, 4, and Patrick Mathis, 2, were shot to death at their home near Mount Vernon, South Dakota.
LaDonna’s husband, John Mathis, survived with a gunshot wound to his arm and said a masked attacker had killed his family.
Investigators focused heavily on John, and he was eventually charged with the murders.
But in May 1982, a jury acquitted him.
The South Dakota Attorney General still lists the murders as unresolved. Neither the killer nor the murder weapon has ever been definitively identified.
The case remains one of South Dakota’s most enduring murder mysteries.
Family Matters: A Mother and Daughter Killed in Las Vegas
Next, Woody goes to Las Vegas for a horrific domestic-violence case.
Nicole Drummond, 47, died after suffering severe burns and a gunshot wound during an August attack.
Police say Jason Simmons, 48, attacked Drummond and killed her 14-year-old daughter before dying by suicide.
According to Woody’s account, Drummond called police during the attack and was later found badly burned and wounded inside the residence.
A Las Vegas Metropolitan Police officer responding to the scene was also shot when Simmons allegedly fired multiple rounds through a closed door. The officer’s ballistic vest stopped the round from penetrating completely, though she suffered injuries.
Woody closes the segment with the sad reality that the mother and daughter are dead while the alleged attacker cannot be prosecuted because he took his own life.
F’d Up Professionals: Officer Charged in Wrong-House Shooting
Then Woody heads to Pennsylvania for a case involving the fatal police shooting of a young man who appears to have simply gone to the wrong house.
Upper Pottsgrove Police Corporal Sean Farrell, 58, has been charged with voluntary manslaughter in the August 23 death of 22-year-old Glenwood Earl Pysher IV.
Authorities say Pysher had been drinking with friends and became confused while walking to a friend’s house.
He ended up at the wrong residence.
The homeowners called police.
Farrell arrived and encountered Pysher on the back patio.
According to the criminal complaint, Pysher was unarmed.
Body-camera footage allegedly shows Pysher with his hands raised while moving toward the officer. Farrell gave commands for him to get down, then fired twice while Pysher was approximately 17 to 20 feet away.
The district attorney says the video does not support Farrell’s later claim that Pysher aggressively charged him.
Montgomery County District Attorney Kevin Steele publicly described the shooting as an unlawful use of deadly force.
Farrell was charged with voluntary manslaughter and subsequently left the department after 21 years in law enforcement.
Woody approaches this story from the perspective of a former officer.
Police officers sometimes have only seconds to make life-or-death decisions. But, he says, that responsibility also means officers must rely on their training, assess the actual threat, and use force proportionate to what is happening.
In Woody’s assessment, based on the allegations and video described by prosecutors, this was a bad shooting.
F’d Up Professionals: K-9 Apollo Starved to Death
The next story makes Woody particularly angry because it involves a police K-9.
Former Dexter, Missouri police officer and K-9 handler Derrick A. Durall pleaded guilty in an animal-abuse case involving active-duty K-9 Apollo and retired K-9 Knox.
Authorities say Durall failed to adequately feed and water the dogs.
Apollo died.
Knox survived but was found in poor condition.
Durall received a one-year jail sentence, but the execution of most of that sentence was suspended. He was ordered to serve 15 days in jail, complete two years of supervised probation and pay the City of Dexter $8,900 in restitution.
That restitution amount is an important correction from the transcript, which says $80,900.
Veterinary records showed Apollo weighed only 41.6 pounds at death and had lost roughly 25 pounds since a previous visit. Investigators documented malnutrition, dehydration and pneumonia.
Retired K-9 Knox was also found with serious health problems.
Woody talks about the bond between police dogs and their handlers and how deeply dependent those animals are on the officers responsible for them.
To him, this wasn't simply neglect of an animal.
It was a betrayal of a partner.
Worldwide Crime: Son Steals £50,000 From His Father
In Scotland, Stephan Dewar stole approximately £50,000 from his vulnerable, housebound father over a period of years.
Dewar’s father had suffered a stroke and did not use online banking.
According to court reporting, Dewar initially asked his father for a £5,000 loan to help buy a pub. He then impersonated his father when dealing with the bank and secretly established online banking access.
Between 2019 and 2022, he transferred approximately £50,000 to himself.
Bank records showed spending at pubs, gambling platforms, OnlyFans and through large cash withdrawals.
Dewar was sentenced to 24 months in prison.
The transcript mentions Greggs as part of his spending; the stronger court reporting I found specifically confirms pubs, OnlyFans, gambling and cash withdrawals, so I would leave Greggs out of the published show notes unless we get a stronger source supporting that detail.
Woody’s disbelief is pretty simple:
The victim was his own father—someone whose medical condition made him particularly vulnerable.
And Dewar used that vulnerability to steal from him.
Louisiana Judge Orders Surgical Castration
Woody closes with a Louisiana case that he actually considers a positive development.
A St. Mary Parish judge sentenced a man to 35 years in prison after he pleaded guilty to offenses including second-degree rape and indecent behavior with juveniles.
The court also ordered surgical castration.
Woody strongly supports severe punishment for adults who sexually abuse children and argues that the purpose is ultimately to prevent another child from becoming a victim when an offender eventually leaves prison.
Finally, Woody returns to the cases RLRC is actively working.
He knows listeners are tired of hearing that major developments are coming.
But, he says, they are.
And when those developments finally break, the Lifers will understand exactly what he has been talking about—and the role the RLRC community played in helping push those cases forward.
He signs off as host of True Crime Time For Tuesday, September 8, 2026.
True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, James Uthmeier, Keysha Monique Epps, Tamra Marshon Stewart, rolling prison, child abuse, semi truck child abuse, Florida crime, death penalty, LaDonna Mathis, Brian Mathis, Patrick Mathis, John Mathis, Mathis family murders, Mount Vernon South Dakota, South Dakota cold case, Nicole Drummond, Jason Simmons, Las Vegas domestic violence, Sean Farrell, Glenwood Earl Pysher IV, Glen Pysher IV, Upper Pottsgrove, Pennsylvania police shooting, voluntary manslaughter, Derrick A Durall, K9 Apollo, K9 Knox, police K9 neglect, Dexter Missouri, Stephan Dewar, father fraud, OnlyFans fraud, Louisiana surgical castration, child sex offender, true crime podcast
Keysha Monique Epps
Tamra Marshon Stewart
Florida “rolling prison” case
Four children confined in semi-truck
Alleged child sexual abuse
Florida death-penalty prosecution
LaDonna Mathis
Brian and Patrick Mathis
John Mathis
1981 Mathis murders
Unsolved South Dakota homicide
Nicole Drummond
Jason Simmons
Las Vegas domestic violence
Officer wounded during response
Sean Farrell
Glenwood Earl Pysher IV
Wrong-house police shooting
Police use of force
Derrick A. Durall
K-9 Apollo
K-9 Knox
Police K-9 neglect
Stephan Dewar
£50,000 fraud
Financial abuse of vulnerable parent
Surgical castration sentence
Justice for Hailey
What Happened to Madison
The Florida defendants’ names are Keysha Monique Epps and Tamra Marshon Stewart, and Florida Attorney General James Uthmeier has described the alleged confinement of four children inside the truck as one of the most horrific cases his office has handled.
The Mathis murders remain unresolved. John Mathis was charged but acquitted, and South Dakota authorities still list LaDonna, Brian and Patrick Mathis among unresolved homicide cases.
The Pennsylvania victim is Glenwood Earl Pysher IV. Prosecutors say body-camera footage contradicts the officer’s claim that Pysher charged him, and Corporal Sean Farrell is charged with voluntary manslaughter.
The Missouri K-9 handler is Derrick A. Durall, and the restitution amount was $8,900—not $80,900. He must serve 15 days in jail and two years of probation after pleading guilty in the neglect case involving Apollo and Knox.
Stephan Dewar is the correct spelling in the Scottish fraud case. He stole £50,000 from his father and received a two-year prison sentence.
The episode also establishes the new programming plan: Saturdays return to Real Life Real Crime stories, while True Crime Time For continues during the week. 

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This is Real Life Real Crime.
In this episode from the RLRC archives, Woody Overton takes listeners to rural Washington Parish, Louisiana, and the 1995 murders of a well-known dairy-farming couple inside their own home.
George Lander Spears Sr. and Bobbie Jean Spears were longtime members of their community. They operated a dairy farm on Star Hill and also owned a bar on their property. By Woody's account, they were successful, hardworking people who were well known in the area.
Then, on January 25, 1995, both were found shot to death inside their home.
And the person who would ultimately be convicted of killing them was their own daughter:
Shanda Spears Crain.
The crime scene initially presented investigators with a frightening possibility. Other members of the Spears family had recently been murdered, and detectives had to consider whether someone might be targeting the family. Lander Spears had even recently purchased a revolver because of those deaths.
That gun was now missing.
The telephone lines to the Spears home had also been cut.
There were no obvious signs that the house had been ransacked.
Then investigators learned that money was disappearing from the Spears' bank account. Checks had allegedly been forged, and suspicion began turning toward Shanda, who helped handle her parents' finances. Woody recounts that investigators also learned she had developed a video-poker gambling problem.
A Daughter Confesses
Five days after the murders, investigators questioned Shanda as a suspect.
She initially denied killing her parents.
Then she confessed.
According to the confession Woody recounts, Shanda had arrived at her parents' home that morning with one of her daughters, who was sick. She left the child with her father while she went to work milking cows at the dairy.
She later returned to the house, got her daughter and placed her in the car.
Then she went back inside.
Her father's recently purchased revolver was beside his bed.
Shanda said she picked it up and fired at him.
She missed.
Her father woke up.
She fired again.
When her mother came from her bedroom after hearing the gunfire, Shanda shot her too.
Then Shanda told investigators what she had done with the gun:
She threw it into the oxidation pond beside the dairy barn.
Investigators eventually drained the pond.
They found the gun exactly where she said it would be.
Shanda was arrested and charged with two counts of first-degree murder.
But that confession would not remain her story.
The Story Changes
After her arrest, Shanda recanted.
She claimed she hadn't killed her parents and attempted to place responsibility on her husband. Investigators checked his alibi and did not charge him. According to the record discussed during her later clemency hearing, she also at one point implicated her younger brother.
Shanda went to trial.
Her defense challenged the confession and argued that it had been coerced. Prosecutors presented evidence of the financial problems, forged checks and the potential financial benefit Shanda could receive following her parents' deaths.
After approximately four and a half hours of deliberation, the jury found her guilty.
The state sought the death penalty, but jurors did not unanimously agree to impose it.
Shanda Spears Crain was sentenced to two life sentences without the possibility of parole.
But years later, this case would become controversial all over again.
“I Didn't Kill My Parents”
While incarcerated, Shanda maintained her innocence.
She portrayed herself as the victim of a coerced confession and gained supporters who believed she had been wrongfully convicted. Eventually, she sought clemency.
And Woody doesn't simply tell listeners what happened at that hearing.
He lets you hear it.
The clemency board begins confronting Shanda with the inconsistencies that had followed her case for decades.
She had confessed to shooting her parents.
She later blamed her husband.
She had also implicated her brother.
Her husband had not been charged.
She admitted disposing of the murder weapon in the oxidation pond.
And as recently as 2022, she had maintained that she did not kill her parents.
The board wants a straight answer.
Finally, one member asks her directly whether she shot and killed both of her parents.
Shanda answers:
“Yes, ma'am.”
But even during the hearing, the story continues shifting.
Shanda discusses an allegedly abusive marriage and at one point again claims her husband was actually at the scene—despite the investigative record indicating otherwise.
A board member reads Shanda's original statement back to her in detail.
According to that statement, Shanda said that after shooting her father she went toward her mother's room. She described firing at her mother and later told investigators:
“I thought that if I could get rid of mama and daddy, that all of my problems would be solved.”
Her Daughter Defends Her
The hearing takes another emotional turn when Shanda's youngest daughter, Megan, speaks.
Megan passionately defends her mother and alleges that she witnessed serious domestic abuse in the home. She describes Shanda as a survivor and argues that fear and abuse played a role in what happened.
Her defense of her mother becomes so heated that the board eventually ends her comments.
But the central question for the clemency board remains whether Shanda has genuinely accepted responsibility.
And the board concludes that she hasn't.
Member after member cites her inconsistent stories and failure to fully acknowledge her actions.
The votes come in:
Deny.
Deny.
Deny.
Her request for clemency fails.
The Story Behind “Bag Dagger”
After the clemency hearing, Woody shares information he says was provided by people who had firsthand experience around Shanda while incarcerated.
This portion needs to remain exactly what Woody presents it as: prison allegations relayed to him by other people, not facts Woody independently witnessed.
Among those stories is the prison slang that ultimately gave the original episode its unusual title:
“Bag dagger.”
Woody explains the term and recounts what his sources alleged about Shanda's prison relationships, personality and behavior. He repeatedly makes clear that he wasn't there and has no direct knowledge of whether those allegations are true.
And that's how an episode about the brutal murder of two parents, a daughter's confession, decades of innocence claims and an extraordinary clemency hearing became known to longtime Real Life Real Crime listeners simply as:
“Bag Dagger.”
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Shanda Spears Crain
Murder of her parents
Lander and Bobbie Spears
Washington Parish, Louisiana
Spears dairy farm
Missing revolver
Cut telephone lines
Forged checks
Video-poker gambling
Shanda's confession
Murder weapon recovered from oxidation pond
Recanted confession
Allegations against her husband
First-degree murder convictions
Death-penalty deliberations
Two life sentences
Claims of innocence
Clemency petition
Clemency hearing audio
Shanda's admission
Megan's defense of her mother
Clemency denial
Prison allegations
Origin of the title “Bag Dagger”
The heart of this Real Life Real Crime episode isn't actually “Bag Dagger.” It is the evolution of Shanda Spears Crain's story—from confession, to recantation, to years of innocence claims, and finally to the clemency hearing where board members force her to confront those contradictions.
One of the strongest pieces of the original episode is that listeners don't have to rely solely on Woody's characterization of the hearing. They hear portions of it themselves—including Shanda acknowledging that she killed her parents and later telling the board that she regretted taking the lives of “two beautiful people.”
The episode also demonstrates why Woody has always distinguished Real Life Real Crime from a traditional true-crime recap. He opens the original episode by explaining that he doesn't simply pull case facts from television or the internet; the show's storytelling comes from his law-enforcement experiences and information from people directly connected to cases. 

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On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody celebrates one of his favorite weekends of the year: LSU football and the opening of dove season in Louisiana. But before heading to the field and getting ready to cheer on the Tigers, he begins the story of one of the most violent and relentlessly criminal figures in American history:
Carl Panzram.
And September 5 carries special significance in Panzram’s story. On September 5, 1930, Panzram was executed by hanging at the federal penitentiary in Leavenworth, Kansas.
But Woody isn’t starting at the gallows.
He’s starting at the beginning.
Carl Panzram: A Childhood Already Filled With Trouble
Carl Panzram was born June 28, 1891, near East Grand Forks, Minnesota, into a large family of East Prussian immigrants.
Panzram would later describe himself as a liar and thief from an extraordinarily young age and said that he became increasingly angry and violent as he grew older.
His father eventually abandoned the family. Panzram also suffered a serious childhood infection requiring surgery, although Woody notes that there is no way to know whether that illness or its treatment caused neurological damage.
What is clear is that Panzram began getting into serious trouble very young.
According to the historical account Woody follows, he had repeated contact with juvenile authorities, stole from people around him and eventually landed at a Minnesota reform school.
Panzram later alleged that he was brutally beaten and sexually abused while institutionalized.
He claimed that his treatment inside reform schools and prisons helped extinguish whatever humanity remained in him.
And at one reform school, Panzram later claimed responsibility for setting the institution on fire.
Running Away, Riding the Rails and Repeated Imprisonment
By his teenage years, Panzram was drinking heavily, stealing, burglarizing homes and repeatedly running away.
He traveled extensively by freight train, living the transient life common among young runaways and laborers of that era. Panzram later claimed that while riding the rails he was gang-raped by several men—another experience he would later cite when describing the development of his hatred toward humanity.
His criminal record continued growing.
Panzram was sent to reform institutions in Montana, escaped, committed additional burglaries and robberies and repeatedly moved under aliases.
And aliases became a major part of his life.
Among the names associated with him were Jeff Davis, Jefferson Baldwin, Jack Allen and John O’Leary, along with several other identities he used as he moved from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. San Diego State University’s Panzram archive independently confirms several of those aliases.
In an era without interconnected computerized criminal databases, a man could give authorities a different name in another state and make it significantly more difficult for police to reconstruct his history.
Panzram exploited that weakness repeatedly.
The Army Doesn't Straighten Him Out
In 1907, Panzram enlisted in the United States Army.
It did not last.
He repeatedly refused orders and was convicted of stealing military property. He was sentenced to hard labor at the United States Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, where he remained from 1908 until 1910.
The official responsible for approving his sentence was William Howard Taft, who was Secretary of War before becoming the 27th president of the United States.
That connection becomes extremely important later.
Panzram claimed the brutality he experienced at Leavenworth destroyed whatever goodness had remained inside him.
After his release and dishonorable discharge, the criminal behavior resumed almost immediately.
Prison After Prison — And Escape After Escape
Woody follows Panzram across an extraordinary list of prisons, towns and aliases.
California.
Texas.
Oregon.
Idaho.
Montana.
New York.
Connecticut.
Washington, D.C.
Kansas.
Panzram committed robberies and burglaries, served sentences and repeatedly escaped custody.
He also became physically formidable from years of hard labor.
Panzram later openly claimed that sexual violence became part of his crimes and that he assaulted men he robbed.
Again, many of the most extreme crimes attributed to Panzram are known primarily through his own later statements, rather than convictions or independently established victims. His surviving archival papers show how extensively he boasted about murder, rape and robbery after his eventual capture.
Mexico, More Escapes and a Life in Constant Motion
Panzram crossed into Mexico, attempted to join military forces there, deserted, stole weapons and continued moving.
Back in the United States, he cycled through more arrests, aliases, prisons and escapes.
At one point he used Jefferson Davis as an alias.
Later it became Jack Allen, Jeff Davis, Jeff Rhodes, Jeff Baldwin, and eventually John O’Leary.
Woody marvels at how frequently Panzram appears to have escaped custody during a period when fingerprints, centralized records and modern communication between agencies were either primitive or nonexistent.
In 1915, Panzram was incarcerated at the Oregon State Penitentiary, where he continued defying authorities and endured long periods of punishment and solitary confinement.
He escaped again.
He was recaptured.
Then he escaped again.
By 1918, using the alias John O’Leary, Panzram left the Pacific Northwest behind.
Panzram Goes International
Panzram then moved into an entirely new phase.
Using maritime work, he traveled internationally.
He made his way through Panama and South America and later traveled to Europe, including Scotland, France and Germany.
Archival materials from San Diego State University likewise document Panzram’s extensive international travel and work aboard ships during this period.
But eventually he returned to the United States.
And in 1920, his story intersected again with William Howard Taft.
Panzram Robs William Howard Taft
In September 1920, Panzram burglarized the New Haven residence of former President William Howard Taft.
According to accounts of the burglary, Panzram stole jewelry, bonds, an inscribed watch and a Colt M1911 .45-caliber handgun belonging to Taft.
For Panzram, it was reportedly personal.
Years earlier, Taft had approved his sentence to Fort Leavenworth while serving as Secretary of War.
Now Panzram had stolen from him.
And according to Panzram’s later account, the stolen money helped finance what came next.
The Yacht Akista
Panzram purchased a small yacht called the Akista.
Then he began cruising around the New York area.
And this is where his own confession becomes especially horrifying.
Panzram claimed that he lured sailors from bars onto the yacht, got them intoxicated, sexually assaulted them and then murdered them with Taft’s stolen .45.
He claimed to have killed 10 men this way and disposed of their bodies around Execution Rocks in Long Island Sound.
There is an important distinction here:
The ten yacht murders are Panzram’s claim. They are not ten individually identified and judicially proven murder victims.
That distinction matters when telling his story.
His own writings are a major reason his alleged body count became so infamous, but Panzram frequently boasted about his crimes and investigators were never able to independently verify every murder he claimed.
According to the account, the yacht killings ended when the Akista ran aground near Atlantic City, New Jersey, allowing two potential victims to escape.
Panzram survived the wreck and was eventually rescued after exposure to the elements.
And that's where Woody stops.
For now.
Because what listeners have heard through 1920 is not remotely the end of Carl Panzram’s story.
Woody will pick it back up Monday as Panzram continues through the next chapter of his criminal life—eventually reaching the crime that finally put him in a prison he could not escape.
Panzram would ultimately claim responsibility for 23 murders and enormous numbers of robberies and sexual assaults. But his documented criminal record and his own self-reported atrocities are not always the same thing, which makes separating fact, confession and boast an important part of telling his story.
And exactly 96 years before this episode’s date, on September 5, 1930, Carl Panzram finally reached the end of the road.
He was hanged at Leavenworth.
Part 2 continues Monday.
True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Carl Panzram, Carl Panzram serial killer, Carl Panzram crimes, Carl Panzram execution, September 5 1930, William Howard Taft, Fort Leavenworth, Leavenworth prison, Jeff Davis, Jefferson Baldwin, Jack Allen, John O'Leary, Akista yacht, Execution Rocks, Long Island Sound, Taft pistol, Colt M1911, prison escape, serial killer, American serial killer, criminal history, true crime history, murder confession, historical true crime, true crime podcast
Carl Panzram
September 5, 1930 execution
Panzram's childhood
Minnesota reform school
Alleged institutional abuse
Early burglaries and robberies
Freight-train life
Repeated prison escapes
Carl Panzram aliases
U.S. Army service
Fort Leavenworth
William Howard Taft
Oregon State Penitentiary
International travel
John O’Leary alias
Taft residence burglary
Stolen Colt M1911
Akista yacht
Execution Rocks
Panzram's claimed yacht murders
Proven crimes versus Panzram's confessions
Part 1 of Carl Panzram story
September 5 is actually the anniversary of Carl Panzram’s execution. He was hanged at Leavenworth on September 5, 1930.
Panzram’s story has to be told with a distinction between documented crimes and his own claims. He boasted of 23 murders and enormous numbers of robberies and sexual assaults, but not all of those crimes were independently verified.
His numerous aliases and repeated escapes show how dramatically different interstate criminal investigation was before modern fingerprint databases, computerized records and instantaneous communication between jurisdictions.
William Howard Taft really does intersect with the story twice: first through Panzram’s Leavenworth sentence and later when Panzram burglarized Taft’s home and stole a Colt .45 associated with the former president.
Panzram later claimed he used that stolen pistol to murder 10 sailors aboard or associated with his yacht, the Akista, but that number should be presented as Panzram’s confession, not ten independently proven homicides.
Woody intentionally stops the story around 1920. The transcript ends with him promising to continue Carl Panzram’s story on Monday, so Episode 269 should be treated as Part 1, not a complete biography.
Woody also leaves the door open for a breaking update on Justice for Hailey or What Happened to Madison if developments happen before the prerecorded episode airs. 

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On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Cyndi takes over the microphone and begins with a message for the families who continue sending Real Life Real Crime information about unsolved cases.
There are more families asking for help than there are hours in the day. Cyndi explains that Woody is the investigator while she serves as the keeper and organizer of much of the information coming in. Every family deserves to have its case examined carefully, but meaningful investigative work cannot be rushed. She asks for patience, grace and understanding while Woody works through cases one at a time.
Then Cyndi gets into On This Day in Crime—and immediately discovers that something isn't right.
The September 4 entry says Wayne Nathan Nance, better known as the “Missoula Mauler,” died after attacking his boss and his boss’s wife, listed as Doug and Teresa Wells. But a few sentences later, it says Nance was attempting to sexually assault a woman named Chris.
Cyndi stops.
Who is Kris?
That question uncovers a much larger story.
The original account had accidentally combined two different couples. The couple who survived Wayne Nance’s final attack were Doug and Kris Wells. Teresa Shook was an entirely different woman who, along with her husband Michael “Mike” Shook, had been murdered months earlier.
And once Cyndi starts separating those two cases, the similarities become chilling.
Doug and Kris Wells Fight Back
The story begins on the night of September 3, 1986, in Missoula, Montana.
Doug and Kris Wells returned home and encountered 30-year-old Wayne Nance outside their property.
Nance wasn't a stranger. Kris knew him through work. She was a manager at a furniture store where Nance worked as a delivery driver.
Nance claimed he had noticed someone suspicious around the Wells home. He presented himself not as the threat—but as the person trying to warn them about one.
Then he attacked.
Nance struck Doug in the head. When Kris came to investigate, Nance produced a gun and forced her to tie up her husband. He restrained Kris as well and took her upstairs, where he tied her to the bed.
Nance then brought Doug into the basement, tied him to a support post, beat him and stabbed him in the chest with a large kitchen knife.
He apparently believed Doug was dying.
He was wrong.
Despite being beaten, bound and stabbed, Doug managed to free himself.
In the basement was a rifle Doug had been working on—and he had one round.
Instead of quietly escaping, Doug deliberately made enough noise to bring Nance back downstairs.
Nance came.
Doug fired.
Even after being shot, Nance continued fighting. During the struggle, Nance shot Doug in the leg. Kris fought back as well, and eventually Nance was overwhelmed.
Doug and Kris Wells survived.
Wayne Nance did not.
He was transported to the hospital and died from his injuries on September 4, 1986.
That could have been the end of the story.
Instead, it became the beginning of an investigation into whether the man Doug Wells had just killed was a serial murderer.
Donna Pounds — 1974
Investigators began looking backward.
One of the earliest cases associated with Nance was the April 1974 murder of Donna Pounds.
Pounds was attacked inside her Missoula home. She was restrained, sexually assaulted and shot, and an attempt was made to set the home on fire.
Nance knew the family and was investigated at the time. Authorities reportedly presented the case to a grand jury, but there was insufficient evidence to indict him.
Nance was only 18.
Cyndi points out several details worth remembering: a home invasion, restraint, sexual violence, murder and an attempt to use fire afterward.
Those behaviors would become important years later.
Devonna Louise Nelson — “Betty Beavertail”
In 1980, the remains of a teenage girl were discovered east of Missoula.
Investigators didn't know who she was.
For years, she was known by a name that wasn't hers: “Betty Beavertail.”
She was eventually identified as 15-year-old Devonna Louise Nelson.
Nance became a possible suspect in her death, but this is one place where Cyndi makes an important distinction: investigators have not definitively established that Wayne Nance murdered Devonna.
Her murder remains unsolved.
Marcella Cheri “Marci” Bachmann — “Debbie Deer Creek”
The connection becomes considerably stronger with Marcella Cheri “Marci” Bachmann, a 16-year-old runaway from Oregon.
Marci reportedly used the name Robin while away from home and crossed paths with Wayne Nance.
In December 1984, her remains were discovered in a shallow grave near Missoula. Investigators couldn't identify her, so she became another Jane Doe with a geographic nickname:
“Debbie Deer Creek.”
After Nance's death, investigators found evidence showing that Marci had actually known him—including photographs of the two together. Evidence recovered from Nance further strengthened the connection between them.
Marci was finally identified in 2006.
Janet Lee Lucas — “Christy Crystal Creek”
Then there was another unidentified woman.
In September 1985, skeletal remains were discovered near Crystal Creek outside Missoula. The woman had been shot twice in the head.
Again, investigators didn't know her name.
She became “Christy Crystal Creek.”
More than 35 years later, investigative genetic genealogy finally restored her identity:
Janet Lee Lucas, 23.
Janet had a five-year-old son when she disappeared. Her family spent decades without knowing what had happened to her.
Nance has been investigated as a possible suspect, particularly because Janet's remains were discovered in the same general area as Marci Bachmann's.
But again, Cyndi is careful not to turn suspicion into fact.
Authorities have not established that Nance murdered Janet Lucas. Her case remains a cold-case homicide investigation.
Michael and Teresa Shook
Then comes the case that explains why Teresa accidentally ended up attached to the Wells name in the original calendar entry.
Teresa was Teresa Shook.
She and her husband, Michael “Mike” Shook, were murdered in their home outside Missoula in December 1985.
The couple were restrained. Teresa was sexually assaulted. Both were killed, and the house was set on fire while their children were still inside.
The children survived.
And suddenly the similarities to Donna Pounds were impossible to ignore.
Donna had been attacked inside her home.
She had been restrained.
She had been sexually assaulted.
She had been shot.
Someone had attempted to use fire afterward.
Then Mike and Teresa Shook were attacked in their home, restrained and murdered before their killer set the house on fire.
Nine months later, Nance entered Doug and Kris Wells' home, restrained the couple, separated them and tried to kill Doug.
But this time, the husband survived.
And after Nance died, investigators discovered something far more concrete:
Property belonging to the murdered Shooks was found among Nance's possessions.
That evidence transformed the investigation.
This wasn't simply a crime that resembled something Wayne Nance might have done. Property belonging to murder victims had ended up in his possession.
Reconstructing the Life of a Dead Suspected Serial Killer
Investigators were now faced with an unusual problem.
Their suspect was dead.
They couldn't interrogate Nance.
They couldn't confront him with evidence.
They couldn't ask where he had been when these women disappeared.
And they could never put him before a jury and have his guilt or innocence determined in court.
Instead, detectives had to reconstruct his life backward.
What emerged was a disturbing collection of cases with very different levels of evidence.
Some had strong physical or circumstantial connections to Nance.
Others remained cases in which he was merely a suspect.
And that distinction matters.
Once someone earns the label “serial killer,” it can become tempting to attach every unsolved murder in the same area to that person. Cyndi deliberately avoids doing that.
What can be said with certainty is that on September 3, 1986, Wayne Nance entered the home of Doug and Kris Wells and attempted to kill them.
Doug Wells fought back.
And on September 4, 1986, Wayne Nathan Nance died.
Nance was never tried or convicted of the murders later associated with him. Yet evidence discovered after his death led investigators to believe the attack on the Wells family was not an isolated act and to examine him in connection with multiple killings around Missoula.
For the families of Donna Pounds, Devonna Nelson, Marci Bachmann, Janet Lucas, Michael Shook and Teresa Shook, many questions outlived Wayne Nance.
And the entire story started because Cyndi noticed one little inconsistency:
Who the hell is Chris?

True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Cyndi Overton, Woody Overton, Wayne Nance, Wayne Nathan Nance, Missoula Mauler, Missoula Montana, Doug Wells, Kris Wells, Donna Pounds, Devonna Louise Nelson, Betty Beavertail, Marcella Cheri Bachmann, Marci Bachmann, Debbie Deer Creek, Janet Lee Lucas, Christy Crystal Creek, Michael Shook, Mike Shook, Teresa Shook, Montana serial killer, suspected serial killer, cold case, unidentified victims, Jane Doe, investigative genetic genealogy, DNA identification, home invasion, true crime podcast
Wayne Nathan Nance
Missoula Mauler
Doug and Kris Wells
Wells home invasion
Doug Wells fighting back
Donna Pounds murder
Devonna Louise Nelson
“Betty Beavertail”
Marcella “Marci” Bachmann
“Debbie Deer Creek”
Janet Lee Lucas
“Christy Crystal Creek”
Michael and Teresa Shook
Shook family murders
Evidence found in Nance's possession
Unidentified murder victims
DNA identification
Investigative genetic genealogy
Suspected versus confirmed victims
Unsolved Montana murders
The original September 4 calendar entry combined two different couples. Nance's surviving victims were Doug and Kris Wells; Teresa was Teresa Shook, who was murdered with her husband Michael months earlier.
Doug Wells' actions stopped the attack. After being beaten, bound and stabbed, he freed himself, reached a rifle with one available round and confronted Nance. Doug and Kris survived; Nance died the following day.
Not every murder associated with Wayne Nance should be described as a confirmed Nance murder. Devonna Nelson and Janet Lucas are among the cases in which authorities investigated him as a possible suspect without definitively establishing that he killed them.
The Shook case provided a much stronger connection. Property belonging to Michael and Teresa Shook was discovered among Nance's possessions after his death.
Modern DNA and genetic genealogy gave identities back to women who spent years known only as Betty Beavertail, Debbie Deer Creek and Christy Crystal Creek.
And this episode demonstrates exactly why stopping when something doesn't make sense matters: one wrong first name was the clue that two completely different crimes had been blended together.

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On today’s episode of True Crime Time For, Woody opens by thanking the Lifers for listening and sharing and reminds everyone that tips can still be called into 313-RLRC-TIP on any case he has worked. He explains that when a specific tip comes in on an active investigation he cannot personally act on, he forwards it to the people currently working the case—and every credible lead has to be run down. Meanwhile, families and investigators continue waiting for answers and justice.
Larry Ralston and the Disappearance of Linda Kay Harmon
For On This Day in Crime, Woody goes back to September 3, 1975, when 17-year-old Linda Kay Harmon disappeared in Ohio while on her way to school.
Harmon failed to meet a friend and later missed a dental appointment, alarming her parents. About a month later, her skeletal remains were discovered scattered across an area along Braun Road. Her murder would eventually become part of a series connected to Larry Ralston, an Ohio serial killer and rapist.
Ralston’s known victims included Harmon as well as Nancy Grigsby, Mary Ruth Hopkins, Elaina Bear, and Diane Sue McCrobie. Historical court records confirm Ralston confessed to the strangulation murder of 15-year-old Elaina Bear, whose body was discovered in a creek bed after she disappeared in January 1977.
Woody walks through the disappearances and murders of the young women, including 22-year-old Nancy Grigsby, 15-year-old Elaina Bear and 16-year-old Diane Sue McCrobie.
The break in the investigation came after three teenage girls reported that a man had abducted and raped them in September 1977. Ralston was arrested later that year, and investigators began connecting him to the murders.
He was convicted of Elaina Bear’s murder in 1978 and initially sentenced to death. That sentence was later converted to life imprisonment following changes to Ohio’s death-penalty law. Additional murder convictions and rape sentences followed. He later pleaded guilty to the 1976 murder of Mary Ruth Hopkins.
Woody is particularly frustrated by the fact that Ralston eventually became eligible for parole despite multiple murder convictions. His bids for release have repeatedly been opposed by victims’ families and denied.
The larger question hanging over the story is whether Ralston may have been responsible for additional unsolved murders in the Cincinnati area during that period. Woody believes investigators knew of far fewer victims than Ralston actually had—but that remains speculation, not an established victim count.
F’d Up Professionals: A Nearly $24 Million Postal Check-Theft Scheme
Next, Woody heads to Houston for an F’d Up Professionals story involving people entrusted with something millions of Americans use every day: the U.S. mail.
Federal prosecutors have charged five Houston-area defendants in a conspiracy involving approximately $24 million in stolen checks.
The indictment names Tryston Tremaine Vaughn, Catherine Clauzelle Kilpatrick, Drakkor Jamar Alexander, Malcolm Tiree Joubert, and Alyssa Nadine Bryant. Kilpatrick, Alexander and Joubert worked as U.S. Postal Service mail carriers.
Prosecutors allege Vaughn recruited postal workers to remove checks from mail along their routes. Those stolen checks were then allegedly offered to buyers through Telegram and shipped to purchasers.
According to the Justice Department, the scheme involved approximately $24 million worth of checks. Individual stolen checks allegedly included amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars, while one was valued at approximately $1.5 million.
Woody talks about the unusual authority of U.S. Postal Inspectors and the federal nature of crimes involving the mail before marveling at the size of the alleged scheme.
He also makes the obvious point: a million-dollar check is one piece of mail you probably want to keep very close tabs on.
All five defendants are accused at this stage, and the charges have not been proven in court.
Two Women Suffer Broken Jaws During Argument Over a Dog
Then Woody stays in Ohio for an assault case involving Antoine James, 38.
According to court records, an argument began over James’ dog allegedly being sold without his permission. Prosecutors say James punched one woman repeatedly and then attacked a second woman when she attempted to intervene.
Both women reportedly suffered fractured jaws.
James faces charges including felonious assault, assault and aggravated menacing.
Woody uses the case to talk about something his own father taught him from childhood: anger does not justify putting your hands on a woman.
Worldwide Crime: Deadly Sword Attack at a Swedish School
For Worldwide Crime, Woody heads to Fagersta, Sweden, where a sword attack at Brinell School left a 17-year-old girl dead and three boys injured.
The alleged attacker has since been publicly identified as 18-year-old Liam Nebel. Current Swedish reporting says Nebel was a student at the school. He is accused of attacking students with a sword before police confronted and arrested him.
Two teenage boys suffered serious injuries, while another injured student was treated and released. Police were also investigating online material potentially connected to the attack.
Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson visited Fagersta following the attack and joined the country in mourning the victim and supporting the injured students, their families, and school staff.
Woody’s point is that horrific mass violence does not require a firearm. In this case, the accused attacker allegedly walked into a school armed with a sword.
F’d Up Professionals: Aiken High School Assistant Principal Arrested
Back in Cincinnati, Steven Barton, a 43-year-old assistant principal at Aiken New Tech High School, has been charged with felony sexual battery involving a 16-year-old student.
The criminal complaint alleges Barton sexually touched the student in a confined area of the school. Investigators say surveillance video and statements made during the investigation corroborated portions of the student’s account.
Police are also investigating whether there could be additional victims. Barton pleaded not guilty and received a $75,000 bond. Cincinnati Public Schools removed him from duty while the criminal and district investigations continue.
Woody focuses on the position of trust involved. Teachers, administrators, coaches, clergy, doctors, police officers and others who have authority over children have a heightened responsibility to protect them—not exploit that access.
Louisiana Sued Again Over Keeping People Locked Up Past Release Dates
The final story hits much closer to home.
A new federal lawsuit accuses the Louisiana Department of Public Safety and Corrections of continuing to hold people in custody after their lawful release dates.
The lawsuit, filed by attorneys with the Promise of Justice Initiative, names Louisiana corrections secretary Gary Westcott among the defendants and alleges that more than 1,200 people were unlawfully overdetained during the period covered by the complaint.
This is not a brand-new concern. Previous federal findings and litigation have documented Louisiana’s long-running problems calculating and implementing release dates.
And on this issue, Woody is unequivocal.
A person may have committed a crime. They may have deserved the sentence they received. But once that lawful sentence is finished, the government does not get to invent additional days in prison.
If a judge says a person’s sentence ends on a certain date, Woody says the state’s job should be to have that person ready to walk out on that date—not days, weeks or months later because of paperwork or administrative failures.
He closes by acknowledging that America’s justice system is imperfect while maintaining that accountability must apply in every direction—including to the government itself.
Woody signs off as host of True Crime Time For Thursday, September 3, 2026.
True Crime Time For, Real Life Real Crime, Woody Overton, Larry Ralston, Linda Kay Harmon, Nancy Grigsby, Mary Ruth Hopkins, Elaina Bear, Diane Sue McCrobie, Ohio serial killer, Cincinnati murders, Tryston Tremaine Vaughn, Catherine Clauzelle Kilpatrick, Drakkor Jamar Alexander, Malcolm Tiree Joubert, Alyssa Nadine Bryant, USPS, postal worker fraud, stolen checks, mail theft, Houston crime, Antoine James, Fagersta Sweden, Brinell School, Liam Nebel, Sweden sword attack, Steven Barton, Aiken High School, sexual battery, Gary Westcott, Louisiana Department of Corrections, Promise of Justice Initiative, overdetention, true crime podcast
Larry Ralston
Linda Kay Harmon
Nancy Grigsby
Mary Ruth Hopkins
Elaina Bear
Diane Sue McCrobie
Ohio serial murders
Parole for violent offenders
Houston postal workers
Nearly $24 million stolen-check scheme
Tryston Tremaine Vaughn
Catherine Clauzelle Kilpatrick
Drakkor Jamar Alexander
Malcolm Tiree Joubert
Alyssa Nadine Bryant
Antoine James
Fagersta school attack
Liam Nebel
Brinell School
Steven Barton
Aiken New Tech High School
Abuse of positions of trust
Louisiana overdetention lawsuit
Gary Westcott
Prison release dates
Larry Ralston was convicted in a series of murders and sexual assaults involving young women in Ohio, and families have continued fighting against his release decades later.
The Houston mail case is even larger than the transcript’s shorthand suggests: the Justice Department says the indictment involves approximately $24 million in stolen checks, with three USPS carriers among the five defendants.
The accused Swedish school attacker now has a publicly reported name: Liam Nebel. A 17-year-old girl was killed and three boys were wounded in the August 21 sword attack at Brinell School.
Steven Barton is the correct name of the Aiken assistant principal charged with sexual battery involving a student; “Kyle Stephen Barton” in the transcript was a transcription error.
Woody’s position on Louisiana’s overdetention problem cuts across the usual tough-on-crime debate: serve the sentence the court imposed—no less, but also no more.
The episode begins and ends with the same principle that applies to RLRC’s own ongoing cases: credible information has to be investigated carefully, even when waiting for the result is frustrating. 

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