The Living Church Podcast

The Episcopal Church is aging. Where are the young people? A campus minister gives his perspective.
The average age of an Episcopal parishioner is now mid-60s. Older parishioners are vital. But where are the young people? How do we reach them? And what, exactly, are they looking for when it comes to church?
Times are changing in terms of the race for cultural relevance, at least when it comes to ministry to young adults. Waning are the days when churches feel pressure to change style or personality in order to appeal to younger generations.
Because what has worked for centuries to form God’s people keeps on working—sacraments; sacred spaces, vestments and vessels; time-tested prayers; bread and wine, water, oil, and incense; loving community—and there is no sign at the portals saying, “you must be 21 or up to enter”
There’s also an element of blessed enchantment, or holy mystery, in these ancient Christian rites and practices, that’s maybe specially poignant for a disenchanted age.
Today we speak with someone today who doesn’t try to solve the puzzle of why more young people aren’t flocking to Episcopal Churches, but who wants to point out some important pieces from his own 30-year experience as a campus minister.
Today we talk about:
His journey in ministry to young adults.
Blind spots and opportunities for the Episcopal Church specifically.
What he sees in the spiritual hunger of students.
What he has learned from evangelicals along the way.
How rootedness and tradition might give a real advantage when it is time for innovative mission.
Our guest today is the Rev. Allen Wakabayashi. Allen serves as the Chaplain for The Episcopal Church at Princeton and as the Province II Coordinator for Young Adult Campus Ministries. He has also been a campus minister with InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, and has pastored in a diversity of Episcopal, non-denominational, and evangelical church settings.
Today’s bonus segment takes us into our Books & Culture corner, where the Rev. David Beresford reviews the new film, A Great Awakening, about an unlikely friendship between Benjamin Franklin and itinerant preacher, George Whitefield. David is a retired priest who lives in Wilmington, Delaware.
From this episode
Books Allen mentions:
Leading Faithful Innovation: Following God into a Hopeful Future
Leadership in a Shrinking Church
David’s whole review of A Great Awakening
davidberesford.net
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Mission and discipleship are connected at the root. Today we’re going to explore some of those connections, not only through our guest’s own life, but also through her experience with particular discipleship programs, as well as what she’s learned through a first career as a geographer and her husband’s career as a mechanic.
Our guest today is the Rt. Rev. Dr. Eleanor Sanderson. Eleanor is Bishop of Hull in the Diocese of York and was previously the Assistant Bishop in the Diocese of Wellington, New Zealand. She serves on the Anglican Communion Commission for Discipleship and Evangelism and has a passion for the renewal of God’s church through multiplying missional disciples and intentional communities.
Today we talk about personal journeys: backpacking, bus rides, and the multifaceted adventure of coming to Christ. We also talk about helping guide others along the way, and how evangelism and community map onto the geography of discipleship and formation.
We’ll also look at a practical apprenticeship model of discipleship she calls “discipleship coaching.” She suggests some excellent resources and describes their powerful but simple format, including Mustard Seed ministries and Discovery Bible Studies.
And at the end of this episode, stay tuned for a new bonus segment!
For today’s bonus segment, we chat with the Rev. Shahzad Gill, Senior Chaplain to the Moderator Bishop of the Church of Pakistan, and Presbyter in Charge of the National Church of Pakistan. With all the anxiety over Christian influence and power in politics and society in the U.S., what it’s like to be an Anglican in a place where Christians are hardly the majority? Shahzad tells a story about family and resilience.
From this episode:
Mustard Seed discipleship 
Discovery Bible Studies 
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Today’s Newsdesk episode covers developments in Gafcon’s Global Anglican Communion, a Rwandan bishop jailed for grazing cattle on church property, and a new, and possibly unique, church growth survey looking for “bright spots” in Episcopal ministry.
We also enjoy a bonus segment at the end that includes some Eastertide treats, including book recommendations and recipes.
See below for related articles, essays, and resources, including corresponding goodies from our bonus segment.
Podcast host and Director of Programs Amber Noel is joined by the Rev. Mark Michael, Editor in Chief of The Living Church magazine, and the Rev. Dr. Matthew Olver, Executive Director and Publisher of the Living Church.
For more, consider subscribing to The Living Church magazine, the only independent news voice covering the Episcopal Church and Anglican Communion.
From this episode:
Gafcon, Global Anglican Communion, and Abuja Affirmation:
(Award-winning podcast episode) 
https://livingchurch.org/podcasts/questions-for-gafcon/
(Articles and essays)
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/heres-who-leads-the-global-anglican-communion/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/abuja-series-1/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/a-confessional-solution-but-what-about-the-nairobi-cairo-proposal/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/the-abuja-affirmation-an-anglican-communion/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/abuja-series-goddard-responds-to-avis/
https://livingchurch.org/covenant/a-fretful-future-gafcons-reordering-of-the-communion-part-1/
Rwandan bishop and cattle grazing:
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/jailed-rwandan-bishop-pleads-for-justice/
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-anglican-communion/jailed-rwandan-bishop-released/
New church growth survey:
https://livingchurch.org/news/news-episcopal-church/churchwide-surveys-seeks-bright-spots-for-growt…
Eastertide treats:
Travel books by Patrick Leigh Fermor
Lamb chop “lollipop” recipe
Elderflower gin + tonic (Don’t forget to add lemon!)
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What’s your school of prayer? Where did you learn to pray? How do you continue to deepen your prayer life? Whose prayer life do you want to have when you grow up? How do you want the example of your prayer life, or the fruits of it, to be a gift to others?
Today’s conversation is about how prayer affects our leadership, and how our pastors’ prayer lives affect us. Whether you are the leader of a congregation, staff, or a person in the pew, our show today is a fascinating, and at times moving, analysis of how healthy leadership, staff culture, and church health are deeply intertwined with the prayer lives of the leaders.
Our conversation isn’t based on formal research, but from the lived perspective of one priest and what he’s observed in the different churches and rectors he’s served.
Our guest today is the Rev. John D. Sundara. John is vice rector at St. John the Divine Episcopal Church in Houston, Texas. Previous appointments include St. Martin's, Houston, and Church of the Incarnation, Dallas.
We’ll talk about things like:
The importance of sharing your prayer life with the people you serve.
Appropriate vulnerability and rejecting ego.
How a culture of prayer creates room for discussion, disagreement, and decision-making.
Ways that prayer nurtures a trusting and confident staff culture.
The gifts and limitations of the prayer book for carrying us in a life of prayer.

John also shares about his journey, and times when prayer has been agonizingly difficult. How does God show up when praying is the last thing you want to do?
Now whether you are a newbie or long time student in the school of prayer; sailing along or bottomed out; charismatic, Catholic, evangelical, or somewhere else on the map; if you’re interested in what it can mean to lead from a place of prayer, this episode is for you. We hope you enjoy the conversation.
From this episode:
This episode is made possible in part by a special bequest from the Anglican Fellowship of Prayer.
“Prayer Drives Congregational Growth” by John Sundara
With Christ in the School of Prayer by Andrew Murray
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Who is Archbishop Sarah Mullally? And what might we expect from her ministry?
Augustine of Canterbury was sent by Pope Gregory in 597 on mission to re-evangelize Britain and became the first Archbishop of Canterbury. Incase you haven’t heard, Anglicans have made world news for electing as the 106th Archbishop of Canterbury the first woman to serve in the role, former Bishop of London, the Most Rev. Sarah Mullally. 
Archbishop Sarah is coming into the role at a time of many tensions and possible changes within the Anglican Communion, including what the ABC's role should actually be and what shape the church might take under the continued pressures of disagreement over what it means to be faithful to the gospel today.
Our editor in chief, the Rev. Dr. Mark Michael, sat down with Dr. Andrew Atherstone, who has just published the definitive biography of Archbishop Sarah called (very appropriately) Archbishop Sarah Mullally: A Biography.
They talk about:
Why she was the “dark horse” of the ABC race the bookies didn’t initially bet on.
Why Andrew calls her a “trailblazer” and a “pioneer.”
How 20 years in a south-side evangelical church and a 20-year career as a nurse shape her leadership.
What we learn from a collection of her parish sermons.
And how we might anticipate her role in the Anglican Communion’s approach to euthanasia, same-sex marriage, and other divisive issues.

Andrew is Professor of Modern Anglicanism at the University of Oxford, and Tutorial Fellow and Latimer Research Fellow at Wycliffe Hall, Oxford. He is a prolific writer and biographer of the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby.
We hope you enjoy the conversation.
From this episode:
Archbishop Sarah’s website
Archbishop Sarah Mullally: A Biography by Andrew Atherstone
Archbishop Justin Welby: Risk Taker and Reconciler by Andrew Atherstone
Ecclesiastical History of the English People and other books by the Venerable Bede
Living in Love and Faith process
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