Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

When I accepted my first worship leader position over 20 years ago, I thought worship was all about the stage. Pick the right songs. Have the best musicians. Seamless transitions. Dial in your click and track system to perfection. While there’s nothing wrong with those dynamics – there was something I wasn’t considering. Worship culture. Now…culture has become a cliche – a buzzword, so to speak. But culture is the environment you steward. It’s the conditions you create to shape the people who are a part of your team. And that matters a lot.

So today, we’re going to talk about worship team culture. My guest is Michael Bethany. Michael is an award winning songwriter, artist, and worship leader. Michael coaches worship leaders and teams all over the world. We talk about how to build a healthy worship culture in 2026, developing leadership pipelines, spontaneous worship, celebrating diversity in the church, and why we need to bring back rehearsals!

Topics Covered:

Michael’s journey to faith in Christ

Michael’s early influences

The posture of a worship leader

Developing a leadership pipeline in your church

What worship leaders are struggling with

Creating systems in your worship ministry

Working on your ministry instead of working in it

How to do spontaneous worship well

Why we need to bring back rehearsals

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible (Click HERE for up to 50% off)

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Sanctuary by Michael Bethany

Michael Bethany website

Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible

This episode is brought to you by dwell bible app. In our busy lives finding quiet moments to read the Bible can be challenging. I get it. Traditional, reading focused apps demand undivided attention.

You have to carve out specific time and space in your day but this also means missing opportunities to engage with scripture in your car or during workouts, or while you’re just doing stuff around the house.

And that’s where Dwell Bible app comes in, offering a unique way to engage with Scripture. Unlike reading apps, Dwell is audio-based. It allows the truth of Scripture to be read over you throughout your day.

Imagine hearing the Bible while driving to work or running in the park or cooking dinner. You don’t always need to find a quiet corner.

The word is with you wherever you are, filling your every day, mundane moments. So give Dwell a shot— it’s a no-brainer.

You’ll get to experience a whole new way to connect with God through the Bible. To get started listening, head to dwellbible.com/beyondsunday for up to 50% off today!

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #390: How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 With Michael Bethany appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

One of the practices that I believe is important for the church in America is to regularly evaluate and interrogate the systems we operate by. What can often pass as biblical is actually just business. What we believe to be Christian is actually just American. When we evaluate the systems we are shaped by, we are more prepared to pivot when our systems hurt people. When the efficiency of our churches miss what the Bible calls us to.

Is it all bad? Of course not. Is it all broken? Of course not. The church imperfect. We are imperfect. I am far from perfect. But if we don’t have the courage to ask questions we can focus more on organizational progress than we do pastoral care.

My conversation today is with my good friend Michael Olson. Michael is an author, musician, and worship leader. He’s a recording artists. He traveled the world playing drums for Michael W Smith. Over the last 16 years he’s led worship at two of the fastest growing churches in America. He’s also written a beautiful new memoir called Daddy Set The Church on Fire: A Journey Toward Restoration.

At the heart of this book is the reality that Jesus is making all things new. The church is broken. We are broken. This world is broken. But if we have eyes to see, there is redemption all around.

This is a conversation for you if you follow Jesus. If you’ve been hurt by the church. If you haven’t been hurt by the church. If you’re a worship leader and feel like a cog in an endless machine of efficiency. If you feel broken by the weight of loss and pain. We talk all about it.

Topics Covered:

Developing a theology of suffering

The highs and lows of growing up Pentecostal

What we can learn about Spirit and Truth from Eugene Peterson

The diversity of the body of Christ within the attractional mega church, reformed church, and Pentecostal church

The tension between organizational progress and pastoral care

The story behind Michael’s book title, “Daddy Set The Church on Fire”

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Michael’s Website

Daddy Set The Church on Fire by Michael Charles Olson

Songs of Restoration by Michael Charles Olson

Show Sponsor:

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #389: The Tension Between Organizational Progress and Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Part of what I love to do with this podcast is highlight some voices that often get overlooked. Cultures that are often pushed to the margins of influence in the Church but have so much to offer us.

Today I’m speaking with Terry Wildman. Terry is the Lead Translator of the First Nations Version of the Bible. Currently there is a New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs available. And the Old Testament is currently being developed.

Terry is a man with native ancestry who grew up in Michigan, was saved during the Jesus Movement, and became pastor early on in his life. What’s fascinating about Terry’s story is he wasn’t exposed to the history of indigenous people until later in life.

That knowledge led him down a path of decolonizing his faith, becoming a missionary to native peoples, and learning how to disentangle what is the way of Jesus and what is not.

This is a deep conversation. Some hard topics. Difficult history. But a challenge we all need.

Topics Covered:

Terry’s journey of discovering his Native ancestry and culture

Why what we’ve learned about Indians in American history is wrong

Why we need exposure to indigenous Bible interpretation

What makes unity between Native Peoples and the church challenging in our political moment

What Christians in America can do today to help Native people

Why we need to decolonize the Bible

The history of Native Bible translation

Terry’s favorite Indigenous names for God the Father and Jesus Christ

Why native people view their tribes through the lens of a matriarchal, rather than patriarchal system

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

First Nations Version: An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament

First Nations Version: Psalms And Proverbs

Reading the Bible on Turtle Island: An Invitation to North American Indigenous Interpretation

One Church, Many Tribes: Following Jesus the Way God Made You by Richard Twiss

Rescuing the Gospel From the Cowboys: A Native American Expression of the Jesus Way by Richard Twiss

Birth of the Chosen One: A First Nations Retelling of the Christmas Story by Terry Wildman

Everything You Wanted to Know About Indians But Were Afraid to Ask

Show Sponsor:

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #388: What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Humans disagree on a lot of things. Religion. Politics. The best brand of peanut butter. But if there’s one area where we can find some common ground, it’s productivity. Getting stuff done. We all – to a certain degree – have to cross items off our to-do list. Whether you’re a stay-at-home parent, Fortune 500 CEO, pastor, or entrepreneur, you have to take action on the goals that matter to you.

That’s why I’m talking to author/speaker Jon Acuff. He’s written a book called Procrastination Proof that simultaneously makes me feel seen and convicted at the same time. You see, I’m a serial procrastinator. When I don’t know what to do next, I assume doing nothing will solve it. Problem is, it never does.

If you’ve ever heard Jon speak or read any of his books, it’s a fun ride. He’s hilarious and practical. In this conversation we talk about procrastination and how to beat it. We talk about Jon’s journey as a PK and his perspective on leading a church. We talk about how to deal with criticism, small churches and mega churches, and even some worship leader jokes at no additional church.

Topics Covered:

Worship Leader jokes

How to deal with criticism

Why successful leaders develop bad habits

One thing every pastor needs

The four frameworks for becoming procrastination proof

The validity of small churches and mega churches

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Procrastination Proof by Jon Acuff

Jon Acuff website

Show Sponsor:

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #387: Beating Procrastination With Jon Acuff appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

It’s impossible to make an argument for a more important book in the history of the world than the Bible. I’ve grown up reading it. I’ve spent my life studying it. The BIBLE yes that’s the book for me. But the Bible is also a complicated book, full of various kinds of writing, from various authors, across many years. I’ve had my fair share of moment over the years in Leviticus, Numbers, and Song of Solomon where I’ve wondered…what is going on?

We all know we’re supposed to read it. But how are we to make sense of it? How are we supposed to read it?

Today I’m talking with Zach Windahl, author of the Book The Bible, Simplified.

This is a conversation about the Bible – what the arc of Scripture communicates, how to read it, and strategies for building habits around prayer and bible reading.

Maybe you’re a pastor or a worship leader who opens the Bible to get a word for you congregation or ministry team, but struggle to read it or understand it consistently. This conversation is for you.

Topics Covered:

Zach’s journey of coming to Christ

Following Jesus and suffering

Why we need to understand the historical context of the Bible

How to read the Bible accurately

Out of context Bible verses

The clumsiness of prayer

How to create a habit of prayer and Bible reading

Coffee routines

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Get Brick

The Bible, Simplified by Zach Windahl

Deep Work by Cal Newport

The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg

Atomic Habits by James Clear

Glitch Coffee Roasters

DAK Coffee Roasters

Black & White Coffee Roasters

Show Sponsor:

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #386: The Bible: How To Read It, Understand It, And Build A Daily Habit Around It With Zach Windahl appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.