The Drone Ultimatum

Matt Kling is the Vice President and General Manager of AI Systems at MatrixSpace, a company developing compact, low-cost radar systems for counter-drone defense, airspace monitoring, and autonomous operations.

Matt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewkling/

MatrixSpace: https://www.matrixspace.com/Follow the show!

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3F1sc8yzQIF9WcdHQ3w7kf

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-drone-ultimatum/id1770994541⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Subscribe to our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://thedroneultimatum.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://x.com/DroneUltimatum

LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-drone-ultimatum/

Our website: https://www.thedroneultimatum.com/

Steve on X: https://x.com/StevenSimoniSteve on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensimoni

In this episode of The Drone Ultimatum, Matt joins Steve to discuss how MatrixSpace is approaching one of the most important challenges in modern air defense: detecting increasingly capable drones without relying on expensive, centralized radar infrastructure.

They explore the company’s origins, its development of a one-pound radar, and its early deployment supporting autonomous police drone operations in Palm Springs, California.

The conversation examines how drone warfare is changing the economics of air defense. As inexpensive drones threaten military installations and high-value equipment, Matt explains why scalable, distributed sensing networks are becoming increasingly important.

They also discuss the growing interceptor market, the challenges of manufacturing defense technology at scale, and MatrixSpace’s work integrating radar with autonomous ground vehicles and counter-UAS systems, including Allen Control Systems’ Bullfrog.

Matt also shares his perspective on AI-powered sensor fusion, processing information at the edge, and the limitations of traditional centralized command-and-control architectures. Drawing on his experience at Raytheon, Northeastern University’s drone research lab, and MatrixSpace, he discusses the transition from large defense programs to a venture-backed technology company.

The episode closes with a broader discussion of the future of drone warfare, GPS-denied threats, mobile military operations, and the challenge of defending increasingly vulnerable forward operating bases.

What happens when a drone needs to navigate underground, inside a building, or in an environment where GPS is unavailable?

Dr. Stefan Hrabar is the Co-Founder and Chief Strategy Officer of Emesent, an Australian robotics company developing autonomous navigation and 3D mapping technology. After completing his PhD in robotics at USC, Stefan spent a decade researching drone autonomy at Australia’s CSIRO before co-founding Emesent in 2018.

Stefan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefanhrabar/Emesent: https://www.emesent.com/

Follow the show!

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3F1sc8yzQIF9WcdHQ3w7kf

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-drone-ultimatum/id1770994541⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Subscribe to our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://thedroneultimatum.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://x.com/DroneUltimatum

LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-drone-ultimatum/

Our website: https://www.thedroneultimatum.com/

Steve on X: https://x.com/StevenSimoni

Steve on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensimoni

In this episode of The Drone Ultimatum, Stefan joins Steve to discuss how Emesent developed Hovermap, a LiDAR-based system that enables drones and ground robots to navigate and map complex environments without GPS.

Originally developed for underground mining, the technology has expanded into defense applications, including subterranean reconnaissance, building mapping, and battlefield damage assessment.

They also discuss the challenges of building and scaling a hardware company, from raising venture capital and managing manufacturing costs to protecting intellectual property.

Stefan explains why Emesent relies heavily on trade secrets rather than patents, how investor attitudes toward hardware have changed, and what it takes to adapt commercial technology for military customers.

The conversation also covers defense supply chains, NDAA compliance, international distribution, and the growing role of AI in robotics and software development.

From converting gas-powered helicopters into autonomous drones in the early 2000s to building a global robotics company, Stefan shares his experience bringing advanced autonomy research into real-world applications.

Malin Crewse and LeGrand Crewse are brothers and co-founders of Corvus Industries, where LeGrand serves as CEO and Malin as CTO.

Corvus is developing small, low-cost kinetic interceptors designed to counter drones at ranges where electronic warfare and existing missile systems can fall short.

Corvus Industries: https://corvusind.com/

Malin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/malin-crewse-268642ba/
Follow the show!
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3F1sc8yzQIF9WcdHQ3w7kf

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-drone-ultimatum/id1770994541⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Subscribe to our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://thedroneultimatum.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://x.com/DroneUltimatum

LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-drone-ultimatum/

Our website: https://www.thedroneultimatum.com/

Steve on X: https://x.com/StevenSimoni
Steve on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensimoni

The conversation covers Corvus’ counter-UAS interceptor, why fiber-optic drones are creating new demand for kinetic defenses, the importance of affordable mass, America’s interceptor stockpile problem, missile manufacturing, seeker technology, solid rocket motors, and the challenge of building systems capable of defeating maneuvering targets.

They also discuss what it’s like building a company as brothers, splitting founder equity 50/50, cashing out retirement savings to fund the company, learning how government procurement actually works, and why successful defense companies may eventually be pushed toward becoming multi-product businesses.

Derek McBride, Portfolio Manager in the Autonomous Warfare portfolio at the Department of War Innovation Unit (DIU), joins the show to discuss how the Pentagon is approaching drones, autonomy, and the defense industrial base.

Derek on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derekmcbride/

DIU Website: https://www.diu.mil/

Follow the show!

Steve on X: https://x.com/StevenSimoni

Steve on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensimoni

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3F1sc8yzQIF9WcdHQ3w7kf

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-drone-ultimatum/id1770994541

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://thedroneultimatum.substack.com/

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://x.com/DroneUltimatum⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-drone-ultimatum/

Our website: https://www.thedroneultimatum.com/

They break down DIU’s role in defense acquisition, the $1.1 billion Drone Dominance program, and how challenge-based acquisition is being used to identify systems that work—and can actually be manufactured at scale.

The conversation covers FPV training, resilient drone supply chains, U.S. manufacturing, counter-UAS systems, interceptors, electronic warfare, autonomy, swarms, private capital in defense, and the economics of modern drone warfare.

Josh Giegel is the Founder and CEO of Gambit AI, an autonomous systems software company building technology to coordinate teams of robots.

Before founding Gambit, Josh worked at SpaceX on the Merlin 1D engine and co-founded Hyperloop Technologies, later Virgin Hyperloop.

Ben Richardson, Gambit’s Chief Commercial Officer, brings a military and defense innovation background to the company.

Josh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-giegel/

Ben on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-richardson-92029b5/

Gambit: https://www.gambit.us/

Follow the show!

Steve on X: https://x.com/StevenSimoni

Steve on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevensimoni

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3F1sc8yzQIF9WcdHQ3w7kf

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-drone-ultimatum/id1770994541

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe to our newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://thedroneultimatum.substack.com/

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠X (Twitter)⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://x.com/DroneUltimatum⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-drone-ultimatum/

Our website: https://www.thedroneultimatum.com/

In this episode of The Drone Ultimatum, Josh and Ben explain why the growing number of autonomous platforms creates a new problem: coordinating them. Rather than building another drone, Gambit is developing the orchestration layer that allows different autonomous systems, payloads, and platforms to work together toward a common objective.

The conversation covers one-to-many control, AI-enabled electronic warfare, autonomous kill-chain workflows, ISR optimization, drone motherships, and the integration of aerial, ground, and maritime autonomous systems.

Josh and Ben also discuss why future battlefields could increasingly become “robot engagement zones” where autonomous systems operate in areas too dangerous for humans.

They also get into the business of building a defense startup: selling pure software to the government, working with traditional primes instead of treating them as competitors, surviving long procurement cycles, managing burn, and turning demonstrations into actual contracts.

Josh also reflects on his path from SpaceX to Virgin Hyperloop to Gambit, what he learned scaling a company to hundreds of employees, and why building a software-focused defense company is a very different proposition from developing capital-intensive hardware.