What can Mao Zedong teach us about Donald Trump?
To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed the legendary sinologist Orville Schell, who visited China during the Cultural Revolution and is currently at the Asia Society.
We discuss…
Mao Zedong’s psychology and political style,
Similarities and differences between Mao and Trump,
How Mao-era traumas reverberate in modern China, including how the Cultural Revolution has influenced the Xi family,
How Zhou Enlai and Deng Xiaoping survived the Cultural Revolution, and which of their tactics could be useful in modern America,
What civil society can do to defend democracy over the next four years.
Co-hosting is Alexander Boyd, associate editor at China Books Review and former ChinaTalk intern.
Read Orville's article, "Trump's Cultural Revolution," here.
Read the Asia Society piece on religion and political power here.
Orville's crazy Asia Society event, From Pontius Pilate to Chairman Mao: Religion and Politics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opw9vqpPBqQ&ab_channel=AsiaSociety
Book recommendations:
Joseph Torigian - The Party's Interests Come First: The Life of Xi Zhongxun, Father of Xi Jinping
Perry Link - The Anaconda in the Chandelier - excerpt from ChinaFile
William Shirer - The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich
Victor Klemperer - I Will Bear Witness: A Diary of the Nazi Years, 1933-1941
Outro music:
Bach's Partita No. 1 for Solo Violin in B Minor, BWV 1002: VIII. Double, Gidon Kremer
https://open.spotify.com/track/3x1Rdpgy6QGSlW9tItHYdm?si=20fa2051dc5d4f91
Aria from J.S. Bach Cantata 'Schwingt freudig euch empor'
https://open.spotify.com/track/5pIy4Gll1YywqKX25EbbOb?si=520327db35f54201
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1:18:10
The AI Attention War
Just how weird will the AI-powered future be?
To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Nathan Lambert, who writes the Interconnects newsletter and researches AI at the Allen Institute.
We get into…
Why OpenAI is trending toward engagement farming and sycophancy,
The state of Chinese AI innovation six months post-DeepSeek, and the factors influencing diffusion of Chinese vs American models,
Meta’s organizational culture and how it influences the quality of the Llama models,
Unconventional career advice for the AI age.
Nathan’s book recommendation: Careless People: A Cautionary Tale of Power, Greed, and Lost Idealism by Sarah Wynn-Williams
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1:01:18
Why the US Needs a Department of Competitiveness
What does the future of industrial policy in America look like, and what state capacity investments are needed to get there? How does China factor into the future of the U.S. semiconductor industry? And what do government affairs offices at large technology firms actually do? To explore these questions, we’re concluding our CSIS Chip Chat series with Bruce Andrews. Bruce has had a long career on Capitol Hill, led government affairs for Ford, served as Deputy Secretary of Commerce under President Obama, and most recently headed government affairs at Intel. He’s now a fellow at CSIS.
We discuss…
The decline of bipartisanship and how to bring expertise back to Capitol Hill,
The case for a new “Department of Competitiveness”
Industry’s role in policymaking and what it took to get semiconductor manufacturers on board with the CHIPS Act,
Why Silicon Valley suddenly became interested in politics,
How to optimize industrial policy in a stick-focused political environment.
Outro music: Moon River, Frank Ocean 2018 (YouTube Link)
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1:01:02
Ezra, Derek, and Dan Wang on Abundance and China
Does anybody really understand China? Could America pursue an abundance agenda without the threat of the PRC? Can podcasters change the world?
To discuss, ChinaTalk interviewed Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, who need no introduction, as well as Dan Wang, who has written beautiful annual letters and is back in the US as a research fellow at Kotkin’s Hoover History Lab. He has an excellent book called Breakneck coming out this August, but we’re saving that show for a little later this year.
Today, our conversation covers…
The use of China as a rhetorical device in US domestic discourse,
Oversimplified aspects of Chinese development, and why the bipartisan consensus surrounding Beijing might fail to produce a coherent strategy,
The abundance agenda and technocratic vs prophetic strategies for policy change,
How to conceptualize political actors complexly, including unions, corporations, and environmental groups,
The value of podcasting and strategies for positively impacting the modern media environment.
Outtro Music: Recomposed by Max Richter, I went with a deep cut Autumn 3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUEeqvp_BrQ
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1:09:09
China's Nuclear Shadow
Can China use military force to achieve its political goals, without triggering nuclear war? To find out, ChinaTalk interviewed Fiona Cunningham, a professor of Political Science at the University of Pennsylvania and author of the new book, Under the Nuclear Shadow: China’s Information-Age Weapons in International Security.
Co-hosting today is Michael Horowitz, another Penn professor who served in Biden’s Department of Defense.
We discuss…
How to use open source PLA documents to conduct deep research,
The evolution of Chinese defense strategy, including the impact of the third Taiwan Strait crisis,
Nuclear modernization and China’s “no first use” policy,
How the PLA makes decisions, including why they chose to develop cyber capabilities, anti-satellite weapons, and hypersonic missiles over proposed alternatives.
Outtro Music: Beauty by Gui Bian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTlfSOCwYJ8
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Conversations exploring China, technology, and US-China relations. Guests include a wide range of analysts, policymakers, and academics. Hosted by Jordan Schneider.
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