Best of the Pod: Would You Shut Down Your Most Successful Product? The Arc to Dia Story
If you had millions of people using a product you spent years building, would you kill it?That’s exactly what The Browser Company did with Arc.Originally recorded in July before The Browser Company’s acquisition by software giant Atlassian earlier this year, we’re republishing this episode because its lessons are truly timeless. Today, the team continues to operate independently under Atlassian’s umbrella.The internet backlash when the company killed Arc in May 2025 was intense, but cofounders Josh Miller and Hursh Agrawal saw that AI was about to make the web something you talk to, not just click into. The best home for that assistant was the thing that's already between you and the internet—the browser. And they realized they couldn’t just duct-tape it on to Arc.One year of heads-down work later, the team launched Dia in beta, and people are raving about it. Dia is a sleek, fast, browser with AI at its core—it gets better with every tab you open, becoming more and more helpful with time. And even though it’s still early, Josh and Hursh’s big pivot looks like one for the ages.In this episode of AI & I, Josh and Hursh spoke for the first time in a full-length podcast about their pivot from Arc to Dia. We talked through their decision-making process, the very public backlash the company faced, and the grit it took to stay the course. If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share! Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipper Timestamps:00:00:00 - Start00:00:48 - Introduction 00:02:22 - The story of how Dan might've been the CEO of The Browser Company 00:09:40 - The moment Josh and Hursh knew they had to walk away from Arc 00:16:59 - How to handle the weight of the unknown in a pivot 00:23:24 - The prototype-driven culture that kept The Browser Company alive 00:25:06 - Why having a product loved by millions of users isn't enough 00:32:12 - The architectural decisions underlying how Dia was built 00:46:04 - How Dia almost shipped without its best feature 00:50:45 - The best ways people are using Dia in the wild 01:07:27 - How Josh and Hursh think about competing with incumbents 01:17:13 - How romanticism informs the product decisions behind DiaLinks to resources mentioned in the episode:Hursh Agrawal: @hurshJosh Miller: @joshmMore about Dia: https://www.diabrowser.com/ Writer and investor M.G. Siegler’s essay about the AI browser wars: https://spyglass.org/ai-browser-wars/ Note: This episode is a rerun from our archives.
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Best of the Pod: Claude Code - How Two Engineers Ship Like a Team of 15
If you’re using AI to just write code, you’re missing out.Two engineers at Every shipped six features, five bug fixes, and three infrastructure updates in one week—and they did it by designing workflows with AI agents, where each task makes the next one easier, faster, and more reliable.In this episode of AI & I, Dan Shipper interviewed the pair—Kieran Klaassen, general manager of Cora, our inbox management tool, and Cora engineer Nityesh Agarwal—about how they’re compounding their engineering with AI. They walk Dan through their workflow in Anthropic’s agentic coding tool, Claude Code, and the mental models they’ve developed for making AI agents truly useful. Kieran, our resident AI-agent aficionado, also ranked all the AI coding assistants he’s used.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperHead to ai.studio/build to create your first app.Pitch is the AI presentation platform that helps professionals collaborate on, create, and deliver winning slide decks — all while staying on brand: https://pitch.com/use-cases/ai-presentation-maker/?utm_medium=paid-influencer&utm_campaign=every Timestamps:Episode start: 00:00:00Introduction: 00:01:16Why Kieran believes agents are turning a corner: 00:03:18Why Claude Code stands out from other agents: 00:06:36What makes agentic coding different from using tools like Cursor: 00:11:58The Cora team’s workflow to turn tasks into momentum: 00:15:20How to build a prompt that turns ideas into plans: 00:23:07The new mental models for this age of software engineering: 00:34:00Why traditional tests and evals still matter: 00:39:13Kieran ranks all the AI coding agents he’s used: 00:42:00Links to resources mentioned in the episode:Try Cora, our AI email assistant: https://cora.computer/Kieran Klaassen: @kieranklaassenNityesh Agarwal: @nityeshagaThe book that helps Nityesh form mental models to work with AI agents: High Output Management
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Building AI Agents to Launch a Million Businesses
Henrik Werdelin wants to launch a million businesses that each make $1M—and he’s doing it with AI.After helping launch Barkbox and Ro Health through his incubator Prehype, Henrik is distilling everything he knows into Audos, a platform that helps you use AI agents to turn your idea into a profitable, lasting company.We had him on AI & I to talk about “portfolio entrepreneurship”—a new breed of entrepreneurship shepherded in by AI, where founders build families of products around the same customer, instead of one moonshot idea. It’s a philosophy we hold close to our hearts at Every.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperHead to ai.studio/build to create your first app.Ready to build a site that looks hand-coded—without hiring a developer? Launch your site for free at https://www.framer.com/, and use code DAN to get your first month of Pro on the house!Pitch is the AI presentation platform that helps professionals collaborate on, create, and deliver winning slide decks — all while staying on brand: https://pitch.com/use-cases/ai-presentation-maker/?utm_medium=paid-influencer&utm_campaign=every !Timestamps:00:01:33 - Introduction00:02:50 - Dan and Henrik on the new breed of entrepreneurship that AI makes possible00:11:08 - Why Henrik believes the future belongs to a million $1M companies00:16:14 - How to build “relationship capital” with your customers00:21:35 - Why “customer-founder fit” shapes lasting companies00:23:01 - Everything Henrik learned about himself from a decade of building companies00:31:44 - How Henrik finds focus and meaning in the daily chaos00:34:17 - How Henrik is parenting two kids in the age of AI00:50:33 - The way AI can fix what social media broke00:56:59 - What happens when AI agents become part of how we tell storiesLinks to resources mentioned in the episode:Henrik Werdelin: https://hellohenrik.com/Try Audos: https://www.audos.com/Henrik’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/Me-My-Customer-AI-Entrepeneurship/dp/B0FCSQ1C7H
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What Jason Fried Learned from 26 Years of Building Great Products
37signals makes tens of millions in profit every year but Jason Fried isn’t all that interested in running a business.Instead, he cares most about making great products—like Basecamp, HEY, and Ruby on Rails—products that are centered around a single, coherent idea. These products are complete wholes, where each piece matters—like a Frank Lloyd Wright house or a vintage car.But how do you create products like that?In this conversation, we talk to Jason about what two decades of building 37signals has been like—and how to build products that have soul.If you found this episode interesting, please like, subscribe, comment, and share!Want even more?Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper:Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribeFollow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperListen to Working Smarter wherever you get your podcasts, or visit workingsmarter.ai. Timestamps:00:00:00 - Start00:00:32 - Introduction00:02:06 - What architecture, watches, and cars teach us about software00:10:54 - How Jason thinks AI plays into product-building00:20:58 - How developers at 37signals use AI00:25:47 - Jason’s biggest realization after 26 years of running 37signals00:29:58 - Where Jason thinks luck shaped his career00:32:41 - What Jason would do if he were graduated into the AI boom00:37:22 - Dan asks for advice on running a non-traditional company like Every00:46:39 - Why staying true to yourself is the only way to build something lasting00:49:38 - Wholeness as the north star for building products—and companiesLinks to resources mentioned in the episode:Jason Fried: Jason Fried (@jasonfried), Jason FriedMore about 37Signals: 37signalsThe book about architecture by Christopher Alexander: The Timeless Way of Building
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How Salesforce Is Using AI to Power the Enterprise
This episode contains sponsored content in partnership with Salesforce.At Dreamforce 2025, Every CEO Dan Shipper sat down with Silvio Savarese, chief AI scientist at Salesforce, to discuss how one of the world’s largest software companies is shaping the future of AI for the enterprise.Together, Dan and Savarese explore how his team at Salesforce develops AI solutions that now power more than 13,000 businesses—including OpenAI, Dell, and FedEx—helping them become truly Agentic Enterprises that operate with greater scale, speed, and precision. Examples include a large language model built for Salesforce developers years before ChatGPT’s release, and Agentforce, the company’s agentic layer that enables a hybrid future of work where humans and AI agents collaborate to achieve more than either could alone.They also discuss how Agentforce gives enterprises a deeply unified AI platform that connects their data with agent functionality—making it both powerful and practical. The conversation touches on how Salesforce builds trust with enterprise customers amid the jagged frontier of AI by ensuring consistency in results, while continuing to push the boundaries of what agents can do autonomously. Savarese shares how enterprise-grade simulation environments help them strike that balance, and reflects on how AI agents will ultimately transform how businesses and individuals alike get things done.@Salesforce #SalesforcePartner #DF25Want even more? Sign up for Every to unlock our ultimate guide to prompting ChatGPT here: https://every.ck.page/ultimate-guide-to-prompting-chatgpt. It’s usually only for paying subscribers, but you can get it here for free.To hear more from Dan Shipper: Subscribe to Every: https://every.to/subscribe Follow him on X: https://twitter.com/danshipperTimestamps:00:00 – Start01:16 – Inside Salesforce’s early AI innovations02:50 – How Agentforce works and what it can do07:03 – The real challenges of deploying AI at scale08:57 – Why Salesforce builds simulation environments for AI12:35 – The future of agents and enterprise AI
Learn how the smartest people in the world are using AI to think, create, and relate. Each week I interview founders, filmmakers, writers, investors, and others about how they use AI tools like ChatGPT, Claude, and Midjourney in their work and in their lives. We screen-share through their historical chats and then experiment with AI live on the show. Join us to discover how AI is changing how we think about our world—and ourselves.
For more essays, interviews, and experiments at the forefront of AI: https://every.to/chain-of-thought?sort=newest.
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