The Most Interesting Thing in AI

Technological waves often arrive with a promise. The internet was going to democratize information. Blockchain was going to decentralize power. Now, AI's boosters say it will bring unprecedented prosperity.

Few people are better positioned to speak to that possibility than Jeremy Allaire. As the CEO of the fintech company Circle—issuer of the USDC stablecoin—and a longtime internet entrepreneur, Allaire has been at the center of the first two technological waves. With AI, he says we’re going through a change that’s “bigger than the Industrial Revolution.” He sees a future of financially-empowered agents—and believes this technology could be the one that finally fulfills the promise of shared wealth.

In a conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, Allaire describes how the agentic economy might work, why regulation will be critical to its success, and what’s missing from the conversation around AI’s effect on society.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff. Supporting sponsor: PwC.

(00:00) Introduction

(03:33) Jeremy’s early fascination with open networks

(07:14) Creating the first online archive of Noam Chomsky's work

(10:54) The promise of the early web

(17:00) How the internet centralized power through social media giants

(22:53) Founding Circle with the vision of creating "HTTP for money"

(31:18) Navigating crypto's reputation challenges

(38:18) Why Jeremy wrote The Agentic Economy Treatise

(43:30) How AI agents could change the fundamental structure of companies

(53:34) The risks of extreme capital concentration with AI

(59:40) The choice we face with AI regulation

(1:05:03) What Jeremy would do if he had an unlimited budget to invest in AI

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As AI’s capabilities improve, reports of “rogue” agents and misaligned systems are becoming more frequent. In response, some activists, academics, and politicians have called for a pause in development, warning of the dangers that superintelligent AI could pose. But Richard Socher, the CEO of AI startup Recursive as well as the AI search engine You.com, sees another path. In his new book, The Eureka Machine, Socher lays out his vision for how self-improving AI could lead to breakthroughs in science, medicine, economics, and more.

In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, he details some of the ways we can mitigate its risks, explains why the limits of our own minds could hold AI back, and considers whether we’re projecting too many fears about human behavior onto an insensate technology.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff.

(00:00) Introduction

(02:25) Richard's childhood in East Germany and Ethiopia

(10:23) What Richard got wrong about AI hype and the DeepMind acquisition

(12:14) The idea behind The Eureka Machine

(17:18) How AIs can compete to make each other safer

(20:30) Are fears about synthetic data overblown?

(22:32) When hallucinations are actually helpful

(28:16) How human intelligence could hold AI back

(34:52) The metacognition tension

(39:13) The OpenAI-Hugging Face hack

(46:15) Would narrower AI goals have put us in a better spot?

(50:30) Richard’s debate with Yoshua Bengio: are we building a dominant species?

(54:29) What breakthrough will finally win over AI skeptics?

(59:26) The case for widely available superintelligence

(1:04:20) What Richard would do if he had an unlimited budget to invest in AI
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For years, tech CEOs have promised that AI will take on the menial, repetitive tasks that have long been a part of office life. Typically, those tasks are assigned to younger, less experienced workers—and poll after poll shows Gen Z is increasingly concerned about what AI will mean for their job prospects. Clara Shih says those fears are, at least partly, justified. As the former head of Meta's Business AI Group, and the CEO of Salesforce AI before that, Shih knows firsthand how companies are deploying AI and where it's affecting hiring. Now, as the founder of the New Work Foundation, Shih is building tools to help young workers navigate this complex hiring maze.

In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, Shih details the skills students should focus on to prepare for the AI era, how employees can leverage the technology, and why more people—of all ages—might soon find themselves working for an algorithm.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff.

(0:00) Introduction

(02:35) What New Work Foundation is doing for Gen Z job seekers

(04:00) Is your major cooked? Testing the "Field Report" tool

(06:50) What AI exposure scores don’t capture

(10:20) How colleges should prepare students for the AI era

(17:30) Why beginners shouldn't use AI to learn something new

(22:00) Is college still worth it?

(23:42) Why applying for a job is harder than it used to be

(29:52) AI will make big companies more efficient—and less fun

(33:12) How the bitter lesson could apply to entire organizations

(36:12) The three buckets all white-collar work might soon fall into

(42:51) Are companies actually laying people off because of AI?

(47:54) What Clara would do if she had an unlimited budget to invest in AI
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Kara Swisher has done a bit of everything. She’s covered the rise of Silicon Valley’s tech giants, founded and sold her own startup publication, and dabbled in Hollywood, with appearances in films such as The Devil Wears Prada 2 and Tron: Ares. She’s now the host of multiple podcasts about tech and politics, as well as Kara Swisher Wants To Live Forever, a CNN series about the longevity industry.

After decades of chronicling the Valley’s foibles, Swisher has many thoughts on AI—where the technology currently is and where it’s going. In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, Swisher goes deep on whether the Big Tech companies are capable of managing AI responsibly; if the technology will deliver on the hype they’ve generated; and how media companies and creators can best leverage it.

Recorded in Bar Harbor, Maine.

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff. Supporting sponsor: PwC.

(00:00) Introduction

(02:25) What Kara’s most excited about with AI

(08:50) What the political backlash against data centers shows

(11:15) Are we repeating the dot-com bubble with massive AI spending?

(13:45) OpenAI's self-inflicted wounds

(16:40) What the US should do about open-source AI

(19:15) Will AI-driven social algorithms push politics toward the center?

(21:25) Why young people are turning on Big Tech

(25:10) How AI is reshaping the relationship between creators and media institutions

(28:35) Will AI make trusted media brands more valuable?

(37:30) How media business models should adapt in the age of AI

(45:35) What Kara would do if she had an unlimited budget to invest in AI

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AI may have leveled the playing field in coding and app development, but it’s also put potentially dangerous tools in reach of nefarious actors. Now, empowered by AI, state-backed intelligence agencies and non-state actors alike can access tools that enable everything from mass surveillance to cyberattacks to bioweapon development. This dynamic could lead to a catastrophe, warns Eurasia Group’s Ian Bremmer. In conversation with Nicholas Thompson, CEO of The Atlantic, Bremmer describes the risks of open-source AI, the opportunities for international collaboration (including an “AI stability board”), and how to increase investment in safety and alignment. Will AI cause socially-destabilizing inequality? What are the chances it helps democracy rather than hurt it? And how concerned should we be about AI companions?

Produced independently of The Atlantic’s editorial staff. Supporting sponsor: PwC.

(00:00) Introduction

(02:04) Why cyberattacks aren’t the primary threat of AI

(05:58) What we should (and shouldn't) take away from the Mythos incident

(08:53) How AI could enable the creation of bioweapons within a year

(13:32) The surveillance trilemma: balancing existential risk mitigation, privacy rights, and open-source freedom

(16:11) Could a FINRA-style global AI stability board enforce safety standards?

(19:54) Why market dynamics alone cannot ensure AI safety

(23:14) Could a US-China bilateral agreement be enough to address governance?

(29:51) Does AI solve social media’s polarization issue?

(34:13) Will AI-driven inequality threaten democratic foundations?

(40:31) The vertical vs. horizontal race: can civil society and nonprofits build ethical guardrails fast enough to catch up?

(45:21) China’s AI strategy: prioritizing industrial robotics and defense

(49:19) What role will Europe play in the AI era?

(52:10) The emerging anti-AI backlash: a new wave of economic populism driven by displaced white-collar professionals

(56:42) Career advice for the AI era

(58:17) How AI impacts consultancies like the Eurasia Group

(01:00:00) What Ian would do if he had an unlimited budget to invest in AI

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