Behind the Wings

Jim “JB” Bell shares his story from inside one of the Air Force’s most secret Cold War programs, Project Constant Peg.

In this episode, Host Rick Crandall talks with Jim “JB” Bell, retired crew chief of the legendary 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron, about what it took to keep America’s secret MiG fighters flying in the Nevada desert. From maintaining MiG-17s, MiG-21s, and MiG-23s at Tonopah Test Range to flying on unmarked C-5s into China to recover F-7 fighters, Bell offers a rare maintainer’s perspective on one of the most classified adversary air programs in U.S. Air Force history. This one is going to be cool!

🎧 What you’ll hear:
How Bell got recruited into Constant Peg: From a chance meeting in a bar at Nellis to joining the secretive 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron
From F-4 Phantom to MiGs: Why working on Soviet fighters was completely different from traditional Air Force maintenance
What Constant Peg was built to solve: How Vietnam exposed the need for American pilots to train against real adversary aircraft
Learning to fix MiGs with no manuals: Trial and error, machine shops, scrounging parts, and building solutions from scratch
MiG-21 vs. MiG-23: Why the MiG-21 was reliable and rugged while the MiG-23 became a constant maintenance challenge
The crew chief mindset: What it meant to fully “own” an aircraft and why trust between pilots and maintainers mattered
China missions and unmarked C-5s: Traveling to Beijing in civilian clothes to recover Chinese-built F-7 fighters for the program
Life at Area 52: Working inside Tonopah Test Range alongside the early stealth programs and living inside a world of total secrecy
How Constant Peg changed air combat: Why Bell believes the program saved lives and gave American pilots a critical edge
The end of the program—and why it still matters: Why Constant Peg ended and why Bell believes a modern version should still exist today
Learn More:
Read the full show notes on the Wings Over the Rockies website
Donate to Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum
Subscribe and leave a review to support the show

This episode is supported in part by United Airlines.

Major General John Barry shares his story of leadership through some of the most consequential moments in modern aerospace and national security history.

In this episode, Host Rick Crandall talks with John Barry, a fighter pilot, combat leader, former NASA official, and retired U.S. Air Force Major General. From Cold War alert missions in the F-4 Phantom to command at Luke Air Force Base, from surviving the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon to helping investigate the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, Barry reflects on a career shaped by what he calls “windows in history.” This one is going to be cool!

🎧 What you’ll hear:
From the Bronx to the Air Force Academy: The unexpected path that launched Barry’s career
The F-4 Phantom and Cold War Europe: Going from dead asleep to airborne in five minutes while sitting nuclear alert
 A lesson in restraint: The near-shootdown that shaped how he identified targets in combat
 Nellis, Red Flag, and flying against MiGs: How realism in training changed the fight
 NASA and Challenger: What he learned watching an organization in crisis
 Command in Turkey: Rebuilding trust after tragedy while flying combat missions over Iraq
 Luke Air Force Base: Leading the largest fighter wing in the world and confronting dangerous F-16 engine failures
 Leadership in practice: Why “make it better than you found it” became his guiding principle
 Inside the Pentagon on 9/11: Evacuation, shock, and leadership in the immediate aftermath
 Investigating Columbia: The technical failure, the cultural breakdowns, and the “echoes of Challenger”
Key takeaway:
Preparation, humility, accountability, and the willingness to learn from history are what allow leaders and institutions to respond when the stakes are highest.

Learn More:
 Read the full show notes on the Wings Over the Rockies website
 Donate to Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum
 Subscribe and leave a review to support the show
This episode is supported in part by United Airlines.

Retired Col. Thomas Kirk shares his story of surviving solitary confinement for two years as a prisoner of war at the “Hanoi Hilton."
In this episode, Host Rick Crandall talks with Tom, a fighter pilot, squadron commander, and Vietnam War POW. From one of the most intense air-combat battlefields in history to the harrowing story that followed, Kirk explores what it took to persevere through the unthinkable. There is a lot to learn!
🎧 What you’ll hear: 
Inside Hanoi airspace: What it felt like flying through dense SAMs, AAA, and MiGs 
October 28, 1967: Leading a major strike, getting hit, and making the call to finish the mission 
Ejection and capture: The moment everything changed 
Life inside the “Hanoi Hilton”: Torture, isolation, and survival 
Two years alone: How routine, discipline, and mindset kept him going in solitary confinement 
The tap code: Communication, connection, and resilience among POWs 
Leadership under pressure: Commanding pilots in one of the most dangerous theaters of war 
Coming home: The physical and emotional return after 5.5 years 
Perspective: Faith, service, and “every day above ground is a great day.”
Key takeaway: 
Kirk’s story reframes resilience as endurance over years, built on discipline, belief, and connection to others. 
About the guest: 
Col. Thomas H. Kirk is a retired U.S. Air Force Colonel and combat veteran of both Korea and Vietnam. He commanded the 357th Fighter Squadron and flew missions over North Vietnam in the Republic F-105 Thunderchief. Shot down on his 67th mission, he spent more than five years as a prisoner of war. He was awarded the Air Force Cross, four Silver Stars, and multiple Distinguished Flying Crosses. After his release, he returned to active duty in leadership roles before retiring and later built a successful business career, continuing to speak on leadership and resilience. 
Learn More: 
Read the full show notes on the Wings Over the Rockies website
Donate to Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum
Subscribe and leave a review to support the show
This episode is supported in part by United Airlines.

Season 8 of Behind the Wings podcast is here. Hosted by Rick Crandall, the next 10 episodes deliver first-hand accounts from across the aerospace world, spanning historic combat missions, classified Cold War programs, and pivotal moments in space exploration. This season continues the show’s focus on connecting past, present, and future through the people who lived it.

Release Schedule:
New episodes drop every other Monday, beginning April 20, 2026.

More Info:
Visit Wings Over the Rockies Air & Space Museum.
Support Wings' Mission of aerospace education and inspiration.
Special thanks to United Airlines for supporting the podcast and helping bring these stories to life.

Get an inside look at NASA’s Quesst mission and the effort to bring supersonic flight back over land, without the disruptive sonic boom.

For more than 50 years, civil aircraft in the U.S. have been effectively barred from flying supersonic over land, not because of speed, but because of noise. NASA aims to change that paradigm with the X-59, a purpose-built experimental X-plane designed to reshape shockwaves so they reach the ground as a quiet “sonic thump” rather than a window-rattling boom.

We’re joined by Cathy Bahm, Low Boom Flight Demonstrator Project Manager at NASA Armstrong, who leads the design, build, and flight test progression of the X-59, and Lori Ozoroski, Commercial Supersonic Technology Project Manager at NASA, who oversees mission planning, acoustic validation, and community response testing, and how that data is delivered to regulators.

Why it matters: if regulators adopt a noise-based limit, commercial supersonic routes over land could become realistic again, potentially cutting long U.S. flights nearly in half.