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The Cinematography Podcast

The Cinematography Podcast
The Cinematography Podcast
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  • Pål Ulvik Rokseth: forging the fiery world of The Lost Bus
    The Cinematography Podcast Episode 330: Pål Ulvik Rokseth Pål Ulvik Rokseth, the Norwegian cinematographer behind director Paul Greengrass's gripping drama The Lost Bus, faced a singular challenge: how to transform one of the deadliest wildfires in California history into a visceral, cinematic character. The film dramatizes the true story of bus driver Kevin McKay and schoolteacher Mary Ludwig. The two heroically navigated 22 schoolchildren to safety during the devastating 2018 Camp Fire in Paradise, California. The partnership between Pål and Greengrass began on another harrowing true-life drama, 22 July, about a deadly terror attack on a summer camp in Norway. Greengrass asked Pål if he'd be interested in working in the United States on The Lost Bus. Just a few weeks later, Pål was prepping in New Mexico, eager to tackle the director's signature action-packed, docu-style storytelling. Pål's vision was to give the fire a palpable presence. "Paul wanted this fire to be a character," he explains. "It has its own cinematic tool as a character that evolves through the story and then gets closer to our characters." The cinematographer expertly captured the increasingly darkening skies, the ominous amber light, and the raw terror as the fire's destructive force grew. To achieve this visceral power, Pål worked closely with visual effects supervisor Charlie Noble, melding the practical and digital inferno into something that felt immediate and real. When he first read the script, Pål was uncertain how they were going to shoot the story on a bus with 22 kids surrounded by fire. His solution was an artful manipulation of natural and artificial light. To depict the moment the smoke enveloped the town, the crew shot exterior scenes at dusk, cleverly capturing a darkness that felt both realistic and unsettling. Real wildfires produce a distinct, saturated amber and reddish light. Pål reproduced this effect using 5k tungsten Skypans to illuminate the environment. The crew didn't shy away from practical effects either, using piped-in propane gas and smoke machines to simulate the omnipresent threat of the blaze. They built controllable, flammable sections of buildings, like the school set, and even an on-set "forest" that could be intentionally lit to capture the immediate impact of the fire. The entire set—including the re-created hills and forest—was constructed on a backlot in New Mexico, with only a few exterior scenes shot near Santa Fe in Ruidoso, where the natural mountains and trees provided authentic backdrops for the bus's journey. Adding to the realism, actor Matthew McConaughey often personally drove the bus when a stunt driver wasn't required. Pål's preparation initially included plans to use a volume stage to generate realistic fire backgrounds, but Greengrass quickly decided he preferred the grounded look of shooting on the backlot. This forced a pivot. While they abandoned the volume stage, Pål did shoot certain sequences on a stage with the bus mounted on a gimbal against a bluescreen for fire visual effects. Greengrass always prefers a realistic, documentary style, and most of the cinematography was handheld. Pål himself often operated one of the cameras, choosing the ARRI Alexa 35 paired with Canon Super 16 lenses. This combination was selected specifically for its ability to capture the complex depth and color palette of fire. For Pål, shooting documentary style is both the biggest challenge and the best reward. He enjoys being able to pre-light and shotlist, but he had to embrace the non-precision of Greengrass's style. "I tend to like to be on a dolly and frame up and light it, and it's very comfortable," he notes. "But with this way of doing it, you have to just follow the characters in their environment and then suddenly you find yourself being in this close-up, and it looks beautiful. I think it's very liberating to tell the story with the camera dynamically."
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  • Ula Pontikos, BSC captures unease in The Man in My Basement
    The Cinematography Podcast Episode 329: Ula Pontikos, BSC The psychological thriller The Man in My Basement is about Charles Blakey (Corey Hawkins), a Black man in Sag Harbor, New York, who is down on his luck, unemployed, and facing foreclosure on his ancestral family home. In a desperate financial situation, Charles accepts a bizarre and extremely lucrative offer from a mysterious, wealthy white businessman named Anniston Bennet (Willem Dafoe). Bennet proposes to rent Charles's basement for a hefty sum—enough to clear his debts—for a few months. To translate director Nadia Latif’s four-year vision from film to screen, cinematographer Ula Pontikos, BSC, chose to root the story firmly in Charles Blakey's viewpoint. Ula and Latif meticulously planned the camera movement and character staging, choosing when characters would enter the frame together or remain distant to explore themes of togetherness and division. The Man in My Basement was shot in Wales, standing in for Sag Harbor, New York. Ula's experience shooting in both the UK and the East Coast was a huge benefit. Though she had her doubts about filming in Wales for Sag Harbor, she found that the light in Wales was surprisingly similar to that of the eastern United States. Ula used light and color to reflect Charles’s state of mind, trapped in a house he can’t afford, with a man literally caged in his basement. A feeling of oppression was created both inside and outside the house with yellow-orange sodium vapor lights enhancing the film’s claustrophobic and uneasy atmosphere. The house was a set with a greenscreen in the windows to show the outdoor scenery from inside. Charles’s nightmare sequences and scenes in outdoor locations were lit with cyan and greens. The film ultimately builds to a climax steeped in red. The most intimate and thematically crucial scenes took place in the basement. Ula chose to shoot these sequences in order, allowing the light story to progress. The lighting shifts from somewhat dim and shadowy with shafts of daylight to completely dark once Charles covers the windows to prevent people from seeing a man caged in his basement. The basement's color palette was created with yellowy, tungsten lights mixed with LED lights. Ula also acted as camera operator, with a single camera for the basement sequences. To maintain tension for the camera, actors Corey Hawkins and Willem Dafoe rehearsed the basement scenes separately. For Ula, the most challenging aspect of the movie was the technical difficulties of shooting through the bars of the cell in the basement. The camera's field of view and depth of focus constantly shifted. Ula had to change lenses frequently, adjusting between showing more of the actors' faces and showing more of the bars. “Shooting characters and the bars is very hard,” Ula explains. “Inevitably, somebody is going to lose an eyeline and somebody is going to go strange-eyed. It's super restrictive. It's very technical and at some point all of us were swearing about the bars.” Her solution required meticulous technical work: careful blocking and making sure both the camera and the actors hit their marks precisely. She was greatly impressed by the results: “It’s a testament to extremely technical, professional actors like Willem and Corey.” See The Man in My Basement on Hulu. Find Ula Pontikos: www.ulapontikos.com Instagram: @ulapontikos The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social
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  • Cinematographer Kira Kelly, ASC on the unique visuals of HIM
    The Cinematography Podcast Episode 328: Kira Kelly, ASC Cinematographer Kira Kelly, ASC, had a rare opportunity in the movie HIM: exploring the genres of horror and sports, which are not usually combined. She and director Justin Tipping focused their discussions on Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE), specifically how football-related brain injuries often cause hallucinations. This condition was central to building the feeling of surrealism for the main character, Cam. Before beginning the 8 weeks of prep on HIM, director Justin Tipping created an extensive lookbook with ideas for the atmosphere, lighting and costumes. To establish the film’s unique, suspenseful, and surrealistic look, he suggested Kira watch The Holy Mountain and Black Swan. “Justin was open to lots of collaboration,” says Kira. “I feel like this film does have such a strong visual look because we were all working together to make the movie.” Camera movement, color, and lighting are all integral to the movie’s storytelling. As Cam descends deeper into the underground compound, Kira used specific colors and lighting. She created a document to track the emotional influence of color for each scene, integrating the lighting into the set and programming the colors to change per sequence. Red with orange highlights was used for the Saviors party, reflecting the oxblood red of the team colors. Fuchsia and magenta were used to show rage. For the scenes on the training field, Kira used top lighting, so that the skin tones of the players would have some reflectivity. Kira's camera work parallels Cam's psychological journey. “At the beginning, it should be fun,” Kira explains. “He's playing football. It's much more loose.” The crew used handheld and body cameras, plus a boomerang rig that sent the camera flying down the field. Once Cam feels trapped in the compound, Kira shifted the style dramatically. “That's where we get into more of these center- punched static frames. He's trapped figuratively, and all the ways.” One of HIM's most unique visual elements was the use of a Flir thermal imaging camera. Kelly and Tipping wanted to use the thermal camera to visually represent the internal trauma of what was happening inside the players’ bodies and brains during tackles. Kira and her crew created a rig to mount the Flir camera right above the ALEXA 35 and found that the images could converge and focus enough to allow the two images to overlay. The shots could flick back and forth between the regular camera and the thermal camera. In post, VFX added the brains and accentuated the muscles. The thermal camera effectively showed blood flow and hot and cold areas, adding a chilling layer to the physical impact of the sport. Kira feels gratified that her vision for the visual style of HIM tells an effective story. “As a DP, every challenge I have is if an audience is able to understand the story,” she says. “If they don't have the wonderful dialogue, if they don't have the music, if they don't have all of those other things helping the story along, could they tell what's happening just with the imagery? And I feel like with HIM, I say, yeah, I think so. You can see it happening. And that's what's super exciting to me.” See HIM in theaters and on VOD. Find Kira Kelly: Instagram @kirakellydp Hear our previous interviews with Kira Kelly: https://www.camnoir.com/ep67/ https://www.camnoir.com/ep273/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social
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  • Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo of Asteria on AI in filmmaking
    The Cinematography Podcast Episode 327: Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo of Asteria on AI in filmmaking Asteria, an AI-driven film and animation studio, recently merged with Moonvalley, an AI research firm, to create generative video technology for filmmakers. Their AI model, Marey, is a visual intelligence model trained only on data that is fully licensed by the company. Unlike other AI companies that use large language models (LLMs) that process text, Marey is designed to understand and generate physical movement. Asteria hired a group of filmmakers who contributed to Marey's research for six months, followed by a three-month alpha testing period with outside partners. Users can now access Marey online at Moonvalley with a subscription. Co-founder Bryn Mooser and Paul Trillo, a director and partner at Asteria, saw a clear need to involve filmmakers and artists in the inevitable future of AI, which is already integral to the film and television process. As Paul puts it, “AI is a bunch of forking paths with different people approaching it in different ways.” Asteria's AI is just a tool for filmmakers to use. “We don't need it to know how to make a movie,” Bryn says. “We make the movie, and we already know how to make the movie.” Both Paul and Bryn want to be thoughtful about how AI is used, and to constantly ask why they are using the tools, and if there's a new way to use them. They don't believe those in the film industry will be replaced or no longer have jobs. “Right now, using AI is optional as a filmmaker,” says Bryn. “But learning about it is not optional right now. We have to learn about it. We know that this is an inevitability that a lot of it is gonna be in the way that we make stuff.” Bryn sees it as another evolution and democratization of the filmmaking process. “My first documentary I was nominated for was shot on the Canon 5D with a GoPro,” he says. “That was a moment where the democratization of indie film and documentaries allowed me to be a filmmaker when I couldn't have before. Now we sit at a time where the same opportunity for this democratization is happening, but it's studio level films.” Asteria will launch its first live-action feature with Natasha Lyonne's film, Uncanny Valley, which will combine AI-generated footage with traditional filmmaking techniques. Find Bryn Mooser: Instagram: @brynmooser @asteriafilm Find Paul Trillo: Instagram: @paultrillo Demo Marey online: https://www.moonvalley.com/marey Sponsored by Hot Rod Cameras: https://hotrodcameras.com/ The Cinematography Podcast website: www.camnoir.com YouTube: @TheCinematographyPodcast Facebook: @cinepod Instagram: @thecinepod Blue Sky: @thecinepod.bsky.social
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  • Matty Libatique: the NY of Highest 2 Lowest, Caught Stealing
    The Cinematography Podcast Episode 326: Matthew Libatique, ASC Cinematographer Matty Libatique, ASC, has had a productive year. Shortly after moving to New York, he began work on Spike Lee's film, Highest 2 Lowest. Immediately after wrapping that project, Matty prepped for Darren Aronofsky's Caught Stealing, and then, following a short break, he collaborated with Bradley Cooper on Is This Thing On? (which releases in December.) He found it fascinating to explore New York City through the lenses of three distinct directors, feeling privileged to shoot three New York-centric movies back-to-back. The New York depicted in Highest 2 Lowest and Caught Stealing are starkly different, depending on where people from different socioeconomic backgrounds live. Both films effectively convey the diverse realities of living there. "When you look at both films, separately, you have a feeling of New York, you feel like you're living in New York inside of these films," Matty explains. "And it's because the directors live in New York and have grown up in New York." During location scouting with both Lee and Aronofsky, Matty noted their deep familiarity and emotional attachment to where they chose to shoot. He feels that movies faking New York locations lack the inherent authenticity of shooting in the real city. Highest 2 Lowest is a reinterpretation of the Akira Kurosawa classic, High and Low. Matty used High and Low as an influence, even though Lee was not making a direct adaptation. He found the Kurosawa film helped him see the hierarchy between the affluent and the poor, and the literal rise to the top of a hill by the wealthy industrialist from his humble origins. These themes became the seed of his visual inspiration. In Highest 2 Lowest, Denzel Washington's record executive David King inhabits a high-rise, literally looking down on the world from a high vantage point. The film is intensely character-driven, and with a large ensemble cast, Matty often shot with two to three cameras per scene. The film used an actual exterior of the Olympia building in Dumbo, Brooklyn while the crew shot on a volume stage set for the interiors. Matty found shooting on the volume stage and working with Unreal Engine to create the background images for the penthouse set to be the most challenging aspect of the shoot. It demanded far more advance planning and preparation to perfect the background images than the production schedule allowed. He had to make early, calculated decisions and plan far in advance for shooting the plates that would be used as the backgrounds. Spike Lee frequently incorporates various film formats in his movies, and Matty saw an opportunity to use both a 16mm and a new KODAK Super 8 film camera once the action in Highest 2 Lowest shifted outside the controlled apartment environment. He use both the 16mm and the Super 8 on the subway and in scenes of the Puerto Rican Day parade, also combining them with different film stocks. Lee cut between these distinct formats, which made a sense of heightened chaos. Matty says, “It was just an effort to create chaos, you know, and having the unmatched visual images cut together to sort of just mimic a chaos around this character.” Caught Stealing recreates the New York City of the 1990s, with Martin Scorsese's After Hours serving as a major reference. Matty felt that the character Hank Thompson (Austin Butler) needed a distinct look to articulate the story. He thought about the rust-red tint of the Lee Marvin film, Point Blank, and used a Camtec Color-Con2 to deliberately bleed red color into a few key scenes. Even though Caught Stealing is entertaining and full of action, it was important to Aronofsky to tell a strong, narratively-driven story, with performance and character making the sequences as exciting and brutal as possible. “Like all Darren movies, there's a construct, there's a box, he sets up the architecture of the film,” Matty says.
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