On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with reflections on the misuse of history in today’s politics. He argues that fascism, once thought to have been buried by the Second World War, has reemerged in modern forms, thriving on the endless hunt for enemies, stoking culture wars, and exploiting new technologies. And he explains why the best antidotes remain liberty, equality, and sometimes humor.
Then David is joined by Mary Beard, one of the world’s foremost scholars of Rome and author of the New York Times best seller Emperor of Rome, for a conversation about what the ancient world can teach us about current politics. They discuss how Roman emperors wielded power, why excess and corruption were baked into the system, and how fragile even the strongest-seeming regimes can be. Beard explains why myths about Roman grandeur persist, what daily life actually looked like under the empire, and what lessons modern democracies should (and should not) draw from Rome’s rise and fall.
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How ICE Became Trump’s Secret Army
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum begins with reflections on how Donald Trump’s sweeping immigration crackdown has transformed America into what he calls a “society based on fear.” Frum warns that the president’s methods risk discrediting not just immigration enforcement, but also law, police, and the very idea of democratic legitimacy.
Then Frum is joined by his Atlantic colleague Caitlin Dickerson, whose Pulitzer Prize–winning reporting has laid bare the human and institutional realities of immigration enforcement. They discuss her latest investigation into the staggering expansion of ICE and the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, which has supercharged its budget to unprecedented levels. Dickerson explains how billions of dollars in new funding are fueling mass detention, empowering private-prison companies, and reshaping U.S. diplomacy while failing to solve the core challenges of immigration.
Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener.
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Why Housing Feels Hopeless
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with reflections on the upcoming 80th anniversary of the end of World War II and what Donald Trump’s recent statements about “Victory Day” reveal about how America is forgetting the meaning of peace, cooperation, and democratic leadership.
Then David is joined by Glenn Kelman, CEO of Redfin, for a candid look at the broken state of the U.S. housing market. Kelman explains why both buyers and sellers are miserable, how pandemic-era mortgage rates have frozen supply, and why the next generation is increasingly stuck, unable to buy, and often unable to move. They discuss zoning reform, immigration, housing deterioration, and why, despite the bleak outlook, Kelman still believes there’s hope for long-term correction—if America can relearn how to build.
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42:51
Ukraine Won’t Surrender
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with a warning about the crumbling of U.S. support for Ukraine under President Donald Trump. He lays out how the Trump administration has slowed the flow of weapons to Ukraine, undermined sanctions on Russia, and made empty promises about future action while spending more money upgrading Trump’s private jet than aiding Ukraine’s defense.
Then David is joined by the journalist Tim Mak, reporting from Kyiv, and Adrian Karatnycky, a senior fellow with the Atlantic Council’s Eurasia Center, for a conversation about Ukraine’s resilience in the face of U.S. abandonment. They discuss why the Ukrainian people remain united, how battlefield conditions have evolved, and why no politician—Ukrainian or American—can force a peace that rewards Russian aggression. They also talk about President Volodymyr Zelensky’s controversial anti-corruption reforms, the surge of youth-led protests, and whether Ukraine’s Western allies truly understand what’s at stake.
Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/listener.
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Trump’s Tariff Disaster
On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum examines how protectionism, once a fringe idea in U.S. politics, became central to modern Republican trade policy. He traces how President Donald Trump made tariffs a political weapon, and why these policies continue to carry political appeal despite their economic cost.
Then David is joined by the historian and trade expert Doug Irwin for a conversation about what tariffs actually do. Irwin explains how protectionist policies have repeatedly backfired in American history, why they persist, and how the U.S. abandoned the bipartisan free-trade consensus that lasted for nearly a century. The two discuss who really pays for tariffs, why tariffs rarely achieve their stated goals, and what it would take to rebuild political support for open markets.
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To defend democracy, one has to believe in it. To believe in democracy, one has to understand it. Where it came from. How it works. What’s true. What’s not. What others did before you. How it could be better. How to make a difference.
Each week, The David Frum Show digs deep into the big questions people have about our society, explains the progress Americans have made together, and reminds us that the American idea is worth defending.
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