People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast

Can you really tell who’s lying just by watching their body language? Are there any practical takeaways you can reliably and regularly get from studying nonverbal behavior in interrogation/interview settings? In this episode, I, Zach Elwood (author of some popular books on poker tells) talk to Chris Shelton, host of Speaking of Cults (speakingofcults.com). We take a hard look at the booming industry of alleged “body language experts,” behavior-based deception detection, and viral interrogation analysis (popular on YouTube and video platforms). We unpack why confident claims about blinks, posture, eye direction, and micro-movements are often misleading, how pseudoscience sneaks into true crime media and even law enforcement, and why innocent people can easily be anxious and seem suspicious under pressure. We discuss if there are realistic uses of body language in interrogation and other real-world settings, and what that might look like. If you’ve ever been persuaded by a YouTube body language "expert," this conversation might change how you think about behavior. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Aemula is a new kind of news media platform that’s trying to tackle a big problem: the fact that the structure of our news media leads to various outcomes that amplify toxic polarization. Instead of the usual “engagement = more exposure” logic, Aemula flips the incentives. You read an article, then you tap a simple Support or Disagree button — and those signals build a living map of Aemula’s community: a 3D social network graph showing how readers, writers, and articles relate (without slapping on ill-defined partisan labels like 'left' and 'right' - labels that often unintentionally amplify us-vs-them, team-based thinking). Aemula creator Don Templeman and I discuss: Why left/right-type labels can be a misleading way to understand beliefs or categorize content; How Aemula uses social network analysis to map out relationships and ideological groupings in an objective, data-driven way; How Aemula’s social network can help define a sort of ideological center, and how promoting content from the widely supported regions of the network can help reduce polarization; How the blockchain aspect of Aemula makes it self-governing and therefore infinitely scalable ; How Aemula’s approach could matter even more in an AI world, where chatbots and LLMs need better sources than “Reddit + Wikipedia”. If you’ve ever felt like the incentives of the media ecosystem seem destined to drive us further apart — I think you’ll appreciate learning about Aemula's paradigm-shifting approach to the news. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For many people, Trump represents a uniquely dangerous figure in American history. But what if the contemptuous, maximally pessimistic ways many people talk about Trump and Republicans help put more "wind in the sails" of polarized, polarizing leaders like Trump? Are we in a self-reinforcing feedback loop of contempt and anger? In this talk for Richard Davies' series How Do We Fix it? (www.howdowefixit.me) Zachary Elwood argues that excessive contempt for each other is the problem underlying all other political discord and democracy-erosion problems. He and Richard discuss how liberal contempt for conservatives can create a feedback loop that empowers highly antagonistic and us-vs-them leaders, why our worst-case caricatures of the other side are so tempting and yet so wrong, and why changing how we talk about the "other side" can make us more persuasive and effective, not weaker. Learn more at www.american-anger.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I talk with journalist Ellen Huet, whose new book Empire of Orgasm digs into the strange origins and evolution of Nicole Daedone and OneTaste, and goes into more detail than the Netflix doc titled Orgasm Inc. We talk about where OneTaste’s orgasmic meditation practices actually came from, how Daedone built a movement around it, and how that movement shifted into something far more high-control and ultimately criminal. Topics discussed include: What counts as coercion when adults voluntarily join a group they can technically leave at any time? Where’s the line between unconventional lifestyle experimentation and exploitation? We talk about Nicole’s appeal, why people found her so compelling, and why charisma often has more to do with the listener than the speaker. And we discuss the paradox that makes groups like this so powerful: people can experience genuine benefits and connection at the very same time that harmful dynamics are unfolding. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Many people think there are telltale signs of lying — shifty eyes, nervous fidgeting, maybe a quick smile — that can give someone away to trained observers. But according to decades of research, that’s a myth. Still, some scientists push back on that consensus. A recent paper by well-known researcher David Matsumoto (of the company Humintell) argues that combinations of nonverbal cues might be highly useful for revealing deception. In this episode, I talk with deception researcher Tim Levine, author of Duped and creator of truth-default theory, about whether that claim holds up — and what the science says about our ability to read lies using body language. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices