Win-Win with Liv Boeree

What if the purpose of life is to find ways of harmonizing the forces of nature, including the nature of ourselves?My guest this week thinks so. I sat down with systems thinker and "True Human" author Samantha Sweetwater to talk about the metacrisis and the future of civilization in the age of AI. Samantha’s work bridges complexity science, indigenous wisdom, embodiment, and systems theory to explore how humans might transition from domination and extraction toward relationship, reciprocity, and long-term resilience.We discuss why modern institutions are struggling to adapt, how technology differs fundamentally from biological systems, and why aligning AI without accounting for the biosphere may be a category error. The conversation also explores kinship versus the hero’s journey, power over life versus the power of life, and what a truly win-win civilization might require.If you’re interested in AI alignment, systems change, ecology, or the deeper roots of the meta-crisis, this conversation offers a radically different lens.Chapters:02:18 – Samantha’s Backstory11:55 – Finite And Infinite Games17:00 – True Human21:55 – Exploring Dreams34:28 – The Great Separation38:51 – Power Of Life vs Power OVER life44:36 – The Balance Between Masculine And Feminine1:05:23 – Observing An Animate World1:14:45 – Achieving Transmigration1:24:28 – Practices To Become More True Human1:42:14 – On AI Alignment1:59:58 – Begin To Embody Intelligence2:06:31 – Why Homo Sapiens Exist To Serve SentienceLinks: ♾️ True Human Book: https: //www.samanthasweetwater.com/truehuman ♾️ Samantha’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samanthasweetwater ♾️ Samantha's Substack: https://enlifenment.substack.com♾️ Daniel Schmachtenberger x Win-Win: https: //youtu.be/KCSsKV5F4xc?si=lM7urTngFNuJ4oZx ♾️ Silent Spring: https: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #AI #indigenouswisdom

Britain was once a beacon of liberty, and the birthplace of the industrial revolution. So why is its economy floundering, while the USA is surging? Has a culture of extreme bureaucracy turned the former global powerhouse into a stagnant "nanny state"?My guest today is Katie Lam, a Member of Parliament willing to speak uncomfortable truths. From the grooming gangs scandal, to anarcho-tyranny, to an environmental planning system that prioritises newts over nuclear electricity, we learn how an inappropriate fear of risk is suffocating the British soul.We also tackle one of the most difficult conversations facing the West today: the failure of multicultural integration, and why the fear of being labeled "racist" has allowed unspeakable crimes like child grooming gangs to go unpunished for so long. Lastly, we hear her inside view on political rivalries (and friendships!), and how politicians can harness the power of competition and cooperation to generate real meaningful change. So if, like me, you’re concerned about the creeping loss of adult agency, and righting institutional wrongs, I highly recommend this episode! Chapters:01:58 - Introduction 02:20 - UK vs US economies03:49 - Is British Decline Systemic, or Cultural?12:41 - When did the Nanny State Begin?17:19 - Overregulation and Norma20:24 - Reduction of Personal Freedoms24:31 - The National Health Service (NHS)29:51 - Consequences of Unexamined Laws32:03 - Britain's Energy Policy & Nuclear Power47:27 - Bravery and Honesty in Politics50:55 - The Grooming Gangs Disaster1:04:15 - Bad incentives for crime1:14:28 - Culture and society1:37:44 - How to Keep Talent in the UK?1:48:48 - How to Make Britain an AI Leader?1:53:50 - Quality of outcome on Brexit1:57:29 - Parliament from the Inside2:12:46 - Axioms to Live By2:15:04 - Competition within politicsLinks: ♾️ Katie’s Website: https://www.katieforkent.com/♾️ Katie’s Grooming Gang Parliament Full Speech: https://youtu.be/suD-kWU45uw?si=bV0EgAngiSea_QPD&t=658♾️ Nuclear Power “Fish Disco” article: https://www.cityam.com/labour-to-hold-fire-on-fish-disco-nuclear-power-reform-due-to-legal-advice/♾️ Katie’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katieforkent/?hl=en♾️ Related Win-Win interview with Dominic Cummings -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boIi7cAPPnYCredits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #politics

Capitalism has historically been our biggest blessing. But what if it's now turning into our biggest curse? Is it time to change the game?My guest today believes so. Jim Rutt is an early internet pioneer, complexity scientist, former chairman of the Santa Fe Institute, and co-founder of the Game B movement... and he has a lot to say about how our economic and technological systems have trapped us in addictive, self-reinforcing feedback loops. From smartphones engineered like slot machines to markets that manufacture desire rather than meet real needs, he argues that our current “Game A” world runs on a single signal — money-on-money return — and that this monoculture is quietly eroding both our agency, and planetary stability.Which is where “Game B” comes in: a post-capitalist operating system built on multidimensional value, regenerative economies, and what he calls "membranes" — local, self-governing communities that cooperate through trust, technology, and shared sensemaking rather than rivalry and coercion.So if, like me, you increasingly feel that modern life is engineered to keep us divided and distracted, I highly recommend this episode. Liv Chapters:01:42 - intro03:38 - Tech hygiene practices06:57 - what was the motivation for tech sabbaticals?10:12 - why do people love slots?15:02 - When did Jim decide to build responsibly?21:38 - status games23:34 - The market as an information system31:38 - have the status games moved primarily to digital38:42 - definition of game A and game B52:14 - How to prevent system collapse?01:05:52 - Have any practical experiments been conducted on game B?01:18:00 - why game A is self terminating01:27:45 - how do declining populations factor into planetary boundaries?01:39:41 - how do we exit the game when we are within it?01:41:45 - defeating the "Big Man"01:49:18 - Jim's trillion dollar idea02:00:31 - AI consciousness02:14:36 - Consciousness vs Intelligence02:22:48 - the dangers of ascribing consciousness to AI02:26:32 - Rapid fire predictions02:28:53 - Jim's WIN-WINLinks: ♾️ The Jim Rutt Show: https://www.jimruttshow.com ♾️ Jim’s X: https://x.com/jim_rutt?lang=en ♾️ Game B wiki: https://www.gameb.wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page ♾️ Game B Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/gamebcore ♾️ Jim’s essay on smartphone dopamine: https://medium.com/@memetic007/reclaiming-our-cognitive-sovereignty-f49f30eb26bb Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2

Superintelligent AI is rapidly approaching, and humanity (specifically, the labs building it) is still a long way from proving it can be safely controlled. But what if that’s the wrong way of viewing the problem? Is there a way to instill values to the mutual benefit of both humans and machines?In this episode of the Win-Win Podcast, Liv sits down with Emmett Shear — Twitch co-founder, former interim CEO of OpenAI and founder of Softmax — for a groundbreaking conversation on the future of AI alignment.Emmett unpacks why the traditional “control alignment” approach, which tries to hard-code pre-determined values into AI, is destined to fail — and why “organic alignment,” inspired by nature, teamwork, and human societies, might be the only path forward for coexistence. From multicellularity to markets, he explains how collective identities form; why betrayal can sometimes be the moral choice; and how we might go about teaching AI to care for us as its own family, rather than see us as masters to obey (or perhaps more accurately, ants to squash).Hear how Emmett's organisation Softmax is experimenting with small, goal-oriented agents in virtual worlds. Why superintelligence should emerge as societies of diverse AIs instead of a single runaway system. And how our own capacity for alignment as groups of humans may be the most powerful clue for what to do next.If you’re ready to explore the very foundations of your assumptions around technology, philosophy and the nature of intelligence itself, this episode will be right up your alley... Chapters:00:48 - Intro.01:04 - Organic Alignment.709:33 - The Formation Of Emergent Coordination.16:01 - Techniques For Creating Alignment.23:43 - What Is The Ideal Environment To Generate Alignment30:09 - How Much Influence Is Projected On The Ai?32:49 - The Global Super Organism That Is The Market.40:41 - Group Questions.40:50 - The Difference Between Coordination And Alignment.43:02 - What Is The Win Condition For Softmax?50:17 - How Do We Maintain The Need For Humans In The Loop?58:57 - Selecting And Scaling The Right Alignment Model.1:02:09 - Blowtorch Theory & Black Holes1:04:48 - Agents Aligning With Each Other Isn't The Same As Aligning With Humans.1:07:25 - Exploring Ai's Capability For Self Modification And Replication.1:14:35 - The Difference Between Alignment Capacity And Aligning With Humanity.1:18:38 - Does Emmett Believe In God?1:25:23 - Are Humans The Appendix To The Future Super Intelligence?1:32:17 - Is Training Ai On Human Ethics And Morality Actually A Good Idea?1:36:17 - Will Ai Be Conscious Or Self Aware?1:40:48 - One Axiom To Instill Into Ai's Being Created.Links: ♾️Softmax - https://softmax.com/♾️Nebulosity and Meaningness - https://meaningness.com/nebulosity♾️Black Holes and our evolving universe - https://theeggandtherock.com/p/in-which-i-tell-you-about-my-next♾️AI Alignment Forum - https://www.alignmentforum.org/♾️Evolving Intrinsic Motivations for Altruistic Behaviour - https://arxiv.org/pdf/1811.05931Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #organicalignment #aialignment #ai #aisafety

Energy is the lifeblood of civilization. Is nuclear power the source of abundant clean energy that's been under our noses this whole time?In this episode of the Win-Win Podcast, Liv sits down with Isabelle Boemeke (founder of Isodope & energy expert) to tackle the debate between abundance and degrowth, sustainability, safety & energy infrastructure concerns, AI and emerging technologies, and why biomass “renewables” are a giant planet destroying scam. We also get into some history: story from Atoms for Peace to Three Mile Island and the China Syndrome effect, unpacks how the IAEA keeps power and proliferation apart, and explores the promise of small/modular and micro-reactors. Also, techno-pastoralism. You heard it here first!Chapters: 0:00 - Intro - Why Is Nuclear A Win-Win1:06 - Isabelle's Backstory7:08 - The Cognitive Impact Of Air Conditioning 10:13 - Renewables Vs Nuclear - Is It Really A Battle?13:23 - Wind Energy15:59 - Should America Lean Into Decentralised Energy Grids?18:32 - The Problem With "Renewable" Labelling23:49 - Better Labelling?25:26 - Public Messaging: Simplicity VS Accuracy 29:11 - History Of Nuclear41:38 - Nuclear Accidents e.g. Chernobyl44:52 - What Would Have Happened If We'd Discovered Nuclear Energy Before Bombs?48:25 - Comparison Of Nuclear And AI 52:08 - Lessons Learned From Nuclear for AI Industry56:20 - Iran's Nuclear Program 59:38 - Funding Of IAEA1:07:11 - The AI Race - What About China?1:08:22 - Decentralized Surveillance1:14:29 - Finding Meaning In A “Brave New World”1:16:56 - Why Young People Aren't Getting Into Relationships1:20:06 - Wireheading And Instant Gratification1:33:42 - Techno Pastoralism1:36:30 - Economics Of Nuclear1:45:15 - Government Incentives1:46:36 - Small Modular Reactors1:53:30 - Circular Economies & Thorium1:59:43 - Fast-tracking Nuclear Engineers2:01:12 - Why Writing A Book Is Hellish2:09:36 - Rapid Fire PredictionsLinks: ♾️ Isabelle IG: https://www.instagram.com/isabelleboemeke?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=Y2xkOG9kd3lvdW9h ♾️ Isodope Website: https://isodope.com ♾️ Isabelle X: https://x.com/isabelleboemeke ♾️ i_sodope X: https://x.com/isodope ♾️ Rad Future: https://www.amazon.com/Rad-Future-Untold-Nuclear-Electricity/dp/0593716329Credits:♾️ Hosted by Liv Boeree♾️ Produced by Luca de VicoThe Win-Win Podcast:Poker champion Liv Boeree takes to the interview chair to tease apart the complexities of one of the most fundamental parts of human nature: competition. Liv is joined by top philosophers, gamers, artists, technologists, CEOs, scientists, politicians and more to understand how competition manifests in their world, and how to change seemingly win-lose systems into Win-Wins.Podcast links:♾️ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWgq0OZMtwtOIyMsVM_vksqdfWcM-b68S♾️ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/03bGVUaFZmJUmEvSHNDPdI?si=64379cc23696454f ♾️ Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/win-win-with-liv-boeree/id1724791350 ♾️ Pocketcast: https://play.pocketcasts.com/podcasts/7f708340-d17c-013b-f46e-0acc26574db2 #winwinpodcast #nuclearenergy #RadFuture