GeriPal - A Geriatrics and Palliative Medicine Podcast

• The Chaplain and the Doctor: A Podcast with Betty Clark and Jessica Zitter

  In this week's episode, we delve into the powerful documentary The Chaplain and The Doctor with two extraordinary guests: Betty Clark, the chaplain at the heart of the film, and Dr. Jessica Zitter, the physician and filmmaker who brought this story to the screen.  The film provides a deeply moving look into the ways personal stories and biases shape our interactions in healthcare. Through our conversation with Betty and Jessica, I gained a valuable insight: the narratives we carry within ourselves—whether conscious or unconscious—act as invisible forces that influence how we engage with patients and colleagues. I also learned that recognizing these stories and the biases they may produce, rather than avoiding them, can foster more genuine and empathetic care. They also may lead to deep friendships, as is clearly shown between Betty and Jessica. I love both this podcast episode and the film itself, as they shine a light on the deeply human—and oftentimes flawed—experience of working in healthcare. They remind us of the vital role of storytelling in shaping how we care for patients, and the often-overlooked yet essential contributions of chaplains in healthcare settings. Betty and Jessica's reflections underscore how chaplains bring compassion and humanity to the medical team, offering emotional and spiritual support to patients and providers alike.  If you're interested in watching The Chaplain and The Doctor during its festival tour, or would like to host a screening at your own institution, I encourage you to visit the film's website at TheChaplainandTheDoctor.com.    This episode of the GeriPal Podcast is sponsored by UCSF's Division of Palliative Medicine, an amazing group doing world class palliative care.  They are looking for physician faculty to join them in the inpatient and outpatient setting.  To learn more about job opportunities, please click here: https://aprecruit.ucsf.edu/apply/JPF05811   ** NOTE: To claim CME credit for this episode, click here **

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• A Strategic Path Forward for Hospice & Palliative Care: Ira Byock, Kristi Newport, Brynn Bowman

  In June of 2025, hospice and palliative care pioneer Ira Byock published a white paper outlining the urgent challenges facing the field today. In a nutshell, he expressed concerns that the quality of hospice care in the United States has become highly variable, with disturbing frequency of unethical practices and avaricious owners. He also raised concern that the rapid increase in palliative care program growth during the first two decades of this century has stalled, leaving us with understaffed programs that are often inadequately trained.  Along with Ira, we've invited Kristi Newport, a palliative care doctor and Chief Medical Officer of the American Academy of Hospice and Palliative Medicine, and Brynn Bowman, Chief Executive Officer of the Center to Advance Palliative Care, to discuss these issues and outline a strategic path forward for the field.  In particular we talk about Ira's four-part solution to transform the field and restore its integrity: (1) publishing clear clinical and programmatic standards, (2) making meaningful data publicly available to ensure transparency and accountability, (3) fostering quality-based competition among providers, and (4) embracing the authentic brand of hospice and palliative care—expert care that alleviates suffering and fosters well-being.  So take a listen and dive a little deeper with these resources, and dont forget, you too can get involved in AAHPM (click here for opportunities): Ira's paper titled "A Strategic Path Forward for Hospice and Palliative Care: A White Paper on the Potential Future of the Field" Our previous podcast on "Is Hospice Losing Its Way" Our previous podcast on Private Equity Gobbling Up Hospices plus Hospice and Dementia with Melissa Aldridge, Krista Harrison, & Lauren Hunt CAPC's Serious Ilness Scorecard - a state-by-state look at palliative care capacity CAPC's second annual Palliative Pulse survey offers insight into how palliative care professionals across the country are feeling this year and what they're focused on National Hospice Locator and TCMTalks Podcast by Chris Comeaux and Cordt Kassner  

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• Palliative Care in Sickle Cell: Craig Blinderman, Stephanie Kiser, Eberechi Nwogu-Onyemkpa

  Today's topic on palliative care for sickle cell disease may raise eyebrows with some of you.  You might think, wait, now we're doing sickle cell?  On top of liquid cancer and transplant, kidney disease, liver disease, and survivorship?  Where does it end?  Do we have staff for all of this? Well I implore you, dear listeners, to keep an open mind and listen to this podcast.  Our guests do a fabulous job of stating the case for palliative care in sickle cell disease, to the point that we ask: why haven't we been doing this all along? Our guests today are Craig Blinderman, Stephanie Kiser, Eberechi Nwogu-Onyemkpa, three palliative care docs who have been advancing the practice in palliative care for sickle cell for a long time. Our discussion ranges from what is sickle cell; to outcomes; to social determinants and discrimination; to PCAs, ketorolac, and bupenorphine; and to the importance of the interdisciplinary team. I would also encourage you to check out Eberechi's NEJM Perspective on Involving Palliative Care to Improve Outcomes in Sickle Cell, which includes a table of the challenges and action items needed to move the field forward. I'd also encourage you to sample this AAHPM Flight on the same topic (we learned that a flight is similar to a flight of drinks - a quick sampling). As Eberechi notes at the start, we should be grateful for the community of people who are advancing palliative care in sickle cell.  Thank you for being a friend (song hint!). -Alex Smith  

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• Medical Billing and Coding in Geriatrics: Peter Hollmann, Ken Koncilja, and Audrey Chun

  Last month, the "Billing Boys"—Chris Jones and Phil Rodgers—joined the GeriPal podcast to demystify medical billing and coding in palliative care. This month, we're back with part two, shifting the focus to geriatrics. While billing and coding may not be the most exciting topic, they're essential for ensuring fair reimbursement for the complex care we provide and for supporting the work of our interprofessional teams, many of whom can't bill directly for their services. When we underbill or leave money on the table, we not only shortchange ourselves but also devalue the critical role of geriatrics in the healthcare system. This time, we're joined by experts Peter Hollmann, Ken Koncilja, and Audrey Chun to dive into key questions: Why does billing matter, and who does it benefit? What's the difference between CPT, E&M, and ICD-10 codes (if you need a refresher, check out our chat with the Billing Boys here)? We explore how to think about billing for complexity versus time, and unpack new and impactful codes like the Cognitive Assessment and Care Plan Services code (99483), advance care planning (ACP) billing codes, and G2211, which acknowledges the added work of managing patients with chronic conditions. We also highlight the new APCM G-codes for 2025, a set of HCPCS codes that could provide substantial financial support for interdisciplinary teams in geriatrics. Finally, we discuss the advocacy behind these codes. The American Geriatrics Society (AGS) plays a vital role on the AMA's RUC committee, helping to improve reimbursement for the complex care of older adults. Tune in to this week's GeriPal podcast for expert advice, practical strategies, and insights that will help you optimize your billing practices and sustain the future of geriatrics! Here are some of the resources we also talked about: The physician fee schedule look up tool Wwere you can find out CMS expected charge based off where you practice  AGS's annual coding update Geriatrics at Your Fingertips, which has a one-pager on billing Medicare Claims Processing Manual   👉 NOTE: Eric and Alex are giving UCSF Geriatrics Grand Rounds on Wednesday November 5, 4-5pm Pacific Time.  The topic is, "What we've learned from nearly 400 GeriPal podcasts." Join us! This will be highly interactive. If you'd like to join via Zoom, you can use this link: https://ucsf.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_qLJSlL0wSlq3SwASXw_S4w.  Or join in person, grand rounds are open to all! We will be speaking at the main UCSF Campus, 500 Parnassus Ave, in the Health Sciences West Building, 3rd floor, room 303.  You can ask for directions when you arrive at UCSF, or email Alex to arrange for someone to meet you at the front (https://profiles.ucsf.edu/alexander.smith).  

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• Rethinking Slow Codes: Gina Piscitello, Parker Crutchfield, Jason Wasserman

  I'm going to begin with a wonderful quote from a recent editorial in Bioethics by our guests Parker Crutchfield & Jason Wasserman. This quote illustrates the tension between the widely held view in bioethics that slow codes are unethical, and the complexity of real world hospital practice: "Decisive moral positions are easy to come by when sitting in the cheap seats of academic journals, but a troubling ambivalence is naturally characteristic of live dilemmas." Gina Piscitello, our third guest, recently surveyed doctors, nurses and others at 2 academic medical centers about slow codes.  In a paper published in JPSM, she found that two thirds had cared for a patient where a slow code was performed.  Over half believed that a slow code is ethical if they believed the code is futile. Slow codes are happening. The accepted academic bioethics stance that slow codes are unethical is not making it through to practicing clinicians. Our 3 guests were panelists at a session of the American Society of Bioethics and the Humanities annual meeting last year, and their panel discussion was apparently the talk of the meeting. Today we talk about what constitutes a slow code, short code, show code, and "Hollywood code." We talk about walk don't run, shallow compressions, and…injecting the epi into the mattress! We explore the arguments for and against slow codes: harm to families, harm to patients, moral distress for doctors and nurses; deceit, trust, and communication; do outcomes (e.g. family feels code was attempted) matter more than values (e.g. never lie or withhold information from family)? We talk about the classic bioethics "trolley problem" and how it might apply to slow codes (for a longer discussion see this paper by Parker Crutchfield).  We talk about the role of the law, fear of litigation, and legislative overreach (for more see this paper by Jason Wasserman). We disagree if slow codes are ever ethical.  I argue that Eric's way out of this is a slow code in disguise. One thing we can all agree about: the ethics of slow codes need a rethink. Stop! In the name of love. Before you break my heart. Think it over… -Alex Smith  

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